Gun Combat= No movement, very stationary when shooting

[roguy]

/facepalm.

[wasdie]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Negative.

What a convincing argument. Continue living in the past then. You're being left behind. Bitching on these forums that old school FPS style is better isn't going to change the team's mind and make the game more quake like.

[MrBloodworth]

Never asked for it to be Quake like. You are just wrong in your assessment of that title.

[Toppopia]

Originally Posted by Pozidriv

I can / will / must agree with this, sort of. If the TTK is CoD hardcore mode (more or less every gun kills in at least 3 shots on any range) it won't really matter what gun you are using and the "best" overall weapon will be the go to hardware most of the time.

Somewhat of a good example would be BF3 and it's assault class. The "best" weapon would be the US starting weapon, it has good accuracy, stopping power, low recoil, moderate ROF and a short reload time. You will see people with 100 service stars with that weapon (1 Service star is 100 kills) and their next weapon might have "only" 2-10.

Nah that starting US weapon sucked, the first russian weapon was way better, and the AN-94 or the AEK-971 were pretty good guns, especially when you gave them the kobra sight, which was the best scope for having no added recoil, but i guess thats my personal preference because i couldn't use the M16 long enough to upgrade it, it seemed so horrible to use, mostly the iron sight and other reason i can't explain.

[Dreamcast]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

I can agree with this.

From the time I have spent in Tribes: A I have a ball because of the high TTK and fast pace. But T:A has a lot more to it than PS2 will be able to because of skiing.

However, in PS1 ADADADAD wasn't enough to have a good time with the high TTK. It just resulted in two players doing a *** while spamming each other. How do you change this in PS2? How do you make combat deeper?

I agree with PS1 ADADAD not being that great.

Having higher movement speed than what the current Planetside 2 has with the same TTK or slightly higher could work IMO.

[captainkapautz]

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

Having higher movement speed than what the current Planetside 2 has with the same TTK or slightly higher could work IMO.

You whole arguement is flawed.

We have seen how many different people play PS2?
Two?
Higby during the GDC footage and now TB, unless I missed someone else.

That's not a whole lot to go on at all.
So, unless we see more gameplay from different people or get beta we just simply do not know how fast you can actually play PS2.

So stop wasting your breaths before that point.

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

You whole arguement is flawed.

We have seen how many different people play PS2?
Two?
Higby during the GDC footage and now TB, unless I missed someone else.

That's not a whole lot to go on at all.
So, unless we see more gameplay from different people or get beta we just simply do not know how fast you can actually play PS2.

So stop wasting your breaths before that point.

While I agree that we need for beta to get here already before we have any serious balance discussions there is no point in shutting down honest speculation.

Many of us, for some god forsaken reason, are heavily invested in Planetsides success and we all have different opinions on how that can be accomplished in terms of gunplay.

So while we wait for beta let's shoot the breeze and talk alright?

[captainkapautz]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

So while we wait for beta let's shoot the breeze and talk alright?

You're tempting fate!

You know it won't stop at words, someone will go to far and negotiations will break down, shots'll be fired, innocents struck down just for speaking up and in the end noone will even remember who said TTK was fine!

I've seen it happen in other threads, man!

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

You're tempting fate!

You know it won't stop at words, someone will go to far and negotiations will break down, shots'll be fired, innocents struck down just for speaking up and in the end noone will even remember who said TTK was fine!

I've seen it happen in other threads, man!

I'm guilty of that lol and it seems I've got my own personal hate club for it, but that doesn't mean some other discussion wont pop up about the same thing when a thread shuts down. And so what if no one remembers who said what, it's probably a good idea that that is the case for me lol.

We shouldn't fear talking about something because it might get shut down.

Maybe we should try making another thread that requires users to list what they think of both a high TTK and a low TTK and the details that comprise them without trashing either side. Rather than having people that feel like talking post on page 10+ at the back of this half assed poll.

[captainkapautz]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

Maybe we should try making another thread that requires users to list what they think of both a high TTK and a low TTK and the details that comprise them without trashing either side.

Nah, I think the next thread on this topic should be opened after we have access to beta, so we can actually shot each others face off.

Kinda keep the theory-only and actual gameplay-supported discussion seperated and in one place, so we can look back later and be like "Man, that was some dumb bullshit of an opinion I had back then.".

[The noob]

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

Nah, I think the next thread on this topic should be opened after we have access to beta, so we can actually shot each others face off.

Kinda keep the theory-only and actual gameplay-supported discussion seperated and in one place, so we can look back later and be like "Man, that was some dumb bullshit of an opinion I had back then.".

Yeah, frankly I'd want to wait for beta before I comment on the TTK. Even Higby himself tweeted that they were still playing with the values, and that had TB come on a different day, the complaints might have been the opposite, with the TTK being too long.

And for those curious, here's the link. https://twitter.com/#!/mhigby/status/204723457953501184

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

"Man, that was some dumb bullshit of an opinion I had back then.".

Speaking of which.



Here is a good comparison to how opinions have changed over the past few months.

If we take faster movement to be Higher TTK (this is a pretty faulty assumption, but from the posts here people in general equate moving faster to increasing TTK) and slower movement to be lower TTK.

With these assumptions we can also lump some categories together.

NP (New Poll, top in that image) = this thread
OP (Bottom) = old thread

NP1 = new poll option 1

So for those favoring Higher TTK in NP = NP2+NP3+NP4 = 40.59% in favor of a higher TTK

Lower TTK in NP = NP1 = 59.41%

Higher TTK in OP = OP3 = 44.00%

Lower TTK in OP = OP1+OP2 = 56%
(I lump OP2 in with lower TTK because the current GDC footage i think we could all agree showed a low ttk).

So we have had a 3% shift in favor of low TTK over the past few months. I don't really think that is too significant, but interesting to see.

(I like numbers and bad assumptions).

Old poll link here http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=39434

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

Speaking of which.



Here is a good comparison to how opinions have changed over the past few months.

If we take faster movement to be Higher TTK (this is a pretty faulty assumption, but from the posts here people in general equate moving faster to increasing TTK) and slower movement to be lower TTK.

With these assumptions we can also lump some categories together.

NP (New Poll, top in that image) = this thread
OP (Bottom) = old thread

NP1 = new poll option 1

So for those favoring Higher TTK in NP = NP2+NP3+NP4 = 40.59% in favor of a higher TTK

Lower TTK in NP = NP1 = 59.41%

Higher TTK in OP = OP3 = 44.00%

Lower TTK in OP = OP1+OP2 = 56%
(I lump OP2 in with lower TTK because the current GDC footage i think we could all agree showed a low ttk).

So we have had a 3% shift in favor of low TTK over the past few months.

(I like numbers and bad assumptions).

Old poll link here http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=39434

No, that does not work. That poll that has the "perfect..."option is about movement. Movement and TTK are not the same thing. TTK is the time it takes to kill a target after you've started shooting at it, and even if you could run a 3 second 40 yard dash, movement still isn't the same thing as TTK. It wouldn't matter if you could run and strafe at the speed of light, TTK is still the amount of time it takes your weapon to kill, not for you to move.

So that poll cannot be used at support for low TTK.

What we need is a properly worded TTK poll but it will probably get locked.

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

No, that does not work. That poll that has the "perfect..."option is about movement. Movement and TTK are not the same thing. TTK is the time it takes to kill a target after you've started shooting at it, and even if you could run a 3 second 40 yard dash, movement still isn't the same thing as TTK. It wouldn't matter if you could run and strafe at the speed of light, TTK is still the amount of time it takes your weapon to kill, not for you to move.

So that poll cannot be used at support for low TTK.

What we need is a properly worded TTK poll but it will probably get locked.

I lumped the "just right option in" with lower TTK because the GDC footage showed what would be considered a lower TTK then what people were expecting to see. So "Just right" would be players thinking lower TTK was perfect.

I didn't use that data to support either side. I said it was insignificant a change which was interesting to note that people haven't changed their opinions much.

I don't think it is too far an assumption to state that the faster players are the harder they are too hit. If they are harder to hit then effectively they take longer to kill. Hence faster movement = higher ttk.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

I don't think it is too far an assumption to state that the faster players are the harder they are too hit. If they are harder to hit then effectively they take longer to kill. Hence faster movement = higher ttk.

That is a good point, actually, but I think we should try to keep "ttk" purely to factors related to the attacker's weapon and the target's health/armor. Basically, damage potential vs target health and mitigation; trying to factor in avoidance via movement clouds it up to where we don't even know what we're talking about anymore. Mostly so we can focus TTK on bullet damage, recoil, etc. If we factored trying to shoot targets that are sprinting perpendicular to you into TTK it would mess it up.

Or maybe we could break it out into "moving target TTK" and "non moving target TTK". Note when I say moving I am not implying strafing Quake gameplay at all, simply, moving.

On that point - I once suggested to the BF3 forums that, instead of lowering bullet damage and increasing random deviation, one way to raise survivability(I will say survivability instead of TTK) would be to increase the sprint speed, since I think BF3's sprint is a moderate jog at best. No one supported me on that...note, by the way, I was literally only talking about increasing the sprint speed, and when you're sprinting you can't fire, I was not in any way suggesting you be able to shoot while sprinting or strafing or anything of that nature.