The Issue of the 10%-20% Power Differentiation

[Canaris]

Having these type of upgrades in a FPS is the worst idea, it ruins having a level playing field which is the foundation of a good game.

I'm telling you This is the new BFR/CC of Planetside

[FIREk]

Originally Posted by Canaris

Having these type of upgrades in a FPS is the worst idea, it ruins having a level playing field which is the foundation of a good game.

I'm telling you This is the new BFR/CC of Planetside

Do read the thread, or at least the last 2 pages, or at least the posts by Higby, please.

[Canaris]

Originally Posted by FIREk

Do read the thread, or at least the last 2 pages, or at least the posts by Higby, please.

I have and I'm still worried

[Gwartham]

Maybe it would be a better concept to think the vet will have more utility and control then a noob instead of thinking purely damage?

Like open sights versus say red dot versus holo?

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Quovatis

Only problem I see is that the NC will benefit more from upgrades. If you can get enough damage boost to kill in 2 JH shots instead of 3, you just decreased the TTK by 33%, not 10% as in your example.

Well then they'd simply lower the damage bonus, wouldn't they?

[Entertain Me]

Let's start complaining once we've played the game. Until then, let the devs do their job...

[Kran De Loy]

Hmm I saw Higby comment on the 20% by including "..., less cone of fire, ..." and got more than a bit worried.

I hope what he really meant was how the weapon sway is effected by movement, weapon type, cert or not cert, recoil, etc.. as I am a firm believer that a bullet goes where the weapon is pointing. I really hate it when ironsights on a weapon lie.

I don't mean hit detection or lag, I mean the bullet should always go literally where the weapon points.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by Entertain Me

Let's start complaining once we've played the game. Until then, let the devs do their job...

Exactly, sometimes I wish the devs wouldn't even know this forum existed. Thankfully I have faith in them to be able to separate the legitimte from the drivel.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Kran De Loy

Hmm I saw Higby comment on the 20% by including "..., less cone of fire, ..." and got more than a bit worried.

I hope what he really meant was how the weapon sway is effected by movement, weapon type, cert or not cert, recoil, etc.. as I am a firm believer that a bullet goes where the weapon is pointing. I really hate it when ironsights on a weapon lie.

I don't mean hit detection or lag, I mean the bullet should always go literally where the weapon points.

Wait so you want 100% accurate weapons that fire with sniper rifle accuracy? That seems a bit cheap. If you fire a few rounds from a gun your accuracy is going to be affected. The only legitimate way to do that is with a COF and random sampling inside of that cone. Either that or kick back that randomly offsets your cursor's position. I'm not a fan of the latter.

Controlling COF bloom is pretty important to me and really makes controlling the weapon take skill.

[Goku]

Originally Posted by Entertain Me

Let's start complaining once we've played the game. Until then, let the devs do their job...

You do understand the point of a forum is to discuss? People are going to discuss what their opinion is on the matter be it positive or negative. Everyones' opinion is going to widely vary from agreeing with you on one area to being the total opposite on the other. I would find forums boring to be honest if everyone thought the same on every idea. People can only infer so much about a feature of the game the devs tell us, so its bound to happen people think it will be the worse case scenario.

[DreaM]

Originally Posted by Quovatis

Only problem I see is that the NC will benefit more from upgrades. If you can get enough damage boost to kill in 2 JH shots instead of 3, you just decreased the TTK by 33%, not 10% as in your example.

Applying supposed PS2 mechanics to PS1?

[Checowsky]

Originally Posted by DeeTwoEh

There ya go.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Wait so you want 100% accurate weapons that fire with sniper rifle accuracy? That seems a bit cheap. If you fire a few rounds from a gun your accuracy is going to be affected. The only legitimate way to do that is with a COF and random sampling inside of that cone. Either that or kick back that randomly offsets your cursor's position. I'm not a fan of the latter.

Controlling COF bloom is pretty important to me and really makes controlling the weapon take skill.

I think he's saying he'd prefer zero cof and instead have to deal with recoil.

Which would work, so long as there was weapon sway while moving.


I tend to agree. I like being able to single shot accurately.

[Quovatis]

Originally Posted by DreaM

Applying supposed PS2 mechanics to PS1?

Well, assuming the NC still have the lower rate of fire but high damage theme, they will either not see any benefit at all, or see more than a 20% improvement. That's just how the math works out when it only takes 2 or 3 shots to kill something. If every weapon in the game required the same number of hits to kill something, then there wouldn't be an issue. Of course the game would be pretty boring that way too.

Of course it can balance out of you can get health/armor bonuses. In that case, the NC will see their TTKs against opponents rise faster than the VS/TR So there is a chance for balance there, again assuming the old PS1 themes still hold.

[Kran De Loy]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Wait so you want 100% accurate weapons that fire with sniper rifle accuracy? That seems a bit cheap. If you fire a few rounds from a gun your accuracy is going to be affected. The only legitimate way to do that is with a COF and random sampling inside of that cone. Either that or kick back that randomly offsets your cursor's position. I'm not a fan of the latter.

Controlling COF bloom is pretty important to me and really makes controlling the weapon take skill.

This.

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

I think he's saying he'd prefer zero cof and instead have to deal with recoil.

Which would work, so long as there was weapon sway while moving.


I tend to agree. I like being able to single shot accurately.

Cone of Fire almost always uses random bullet spread to simulate inaccuracy due to a host of more specific problems such as weapon mishandling, inexperience and fatigue as well as the cone is directly influenced by the some of the same factors that you could still implement into a game without a the use of a Cone of Fire mechanic such as player movement and recoil.SilverText=Edited

Examples of something that would replace the general Cone of Fire mechanics would be Weapon Sway during and shortly after any movement, Recoil and Recoil Recovery, Muzzle Drooping with heavier weapons...

I can not think of much else. There is probably only a few other bits that could be included in replacing CoF, just so long as the bullet goes where the iron sights on your screen say it will go when you click that fire button.

I'd very much appreciate an official response on this by Higby or Smed...
If I remember correctly someone stated that CoF was out the window already, but I'm not 100% sure and I cant seem to find it..

--- Below is just me rambling, thought I'd include it anyway though. ---

Thinking about it as I type this (which is usually not a good thing since I end up rambling), they could still implement Cone of Fire randomization if they really needed to. Though basic certs early in a weapon's tree should negate that randomization effect. Most likely by bringing the cone down to a nearly non existent level. If they did that they could use the remaining tiny tiny CoF randomization effect as a method to explain various issues in bullet stray due to heat, humidity and wind factors that would normally be left out because they'd add waaaaaaay too much code and you'd normally only notice the bullet stray at long or extreme ranges anyway.

That is if they didn't just make it so the bullet just stopped at a certain static distance. (That distance could also be affected by weapon type and a host of Certs.)

A seriously major downside about all this would be that implementing it would add a ton more code for them to monkey through so I'd much rather they didn't use Cone of Fire mechanics at all.