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Old 2012-02-03, 07:12 PM   [Ignore Me] #121
DayOne
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Re: Make night time dark.




With the light bit being the edge of the forest.
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Old 2012-02-03, 07:13 PM   [Ignore Me] #122
BorisBlade
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Re: Make night time dark.


Originally Posted by VioletZero View Post
Goodness no, I can see the issues with that right away.

I really meant just having night and day cycles that reflect real life.
no, i dont want it to always be night or day every single time i play after work. It cant be synced with real time of day or its boring. Its better to have it, for example, on a 21 hour schedule or whatever so that sometimes its day and sometimes its night and all in between even if you always play at the exact same times each day. Keeping it an odd number to let the slow shift between game time and real time each night eventually cover all times of day so you get to experience everything. Honestly a 14 hour day is kinda cool. You get decently long cycles of day and night but short enough to keep things shifting up enough to help keep it exciting.
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Old 2012-02-03, 07:22 PM   [Ignore Me] #123
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Re: Make night time dark.


I think 7 hours is better, days/nights aren't too long so they get boring but sufficiently long you get to do stuff that requires darkness. Also it keeps the time on Auraxis varied to the time on Earth, but not so different you have no way of knowing if it'll be day or night with out a bunch of maths.
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Old 2012-02-03, 07:28 PM   [Ignore Me] #124
Graywolves
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Re: Make night time dark.


Imagine how awesome night battles would be on Ceryshen
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Old 2012-02-03, 08:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #125
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Re: Make night time dark.


Would be cool if they had human night vision. As in when you first go outside from a bright lit room, its pitch black but after a while your eyes get used to the dark.
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Old 2012-02-03, 09:11 PM   [Ignore Me] #126
Warborn
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Re: Make night time dark.


Originally Posted by Seagoon View Post
Ok, so if I have missed all these vital points you have been making, why dont you enlighten me?

Post them for all to see and discuss (that is what this thread is for right?).
How can I resist an opportunity to rewrite everything I've already said in a thread before? Why, I just can't, I'll tell ya plainly.

Okay, so first, some terminology. Just off the cuff, let's define the two kinds of night time/otherwise dark areas that you typically see in vidja games.

First one, let's call it "real darkness". Real darkness attempts to simulate the kind of darkness we simple folk experience on moonless nights with no snow cover, where you can't see more than a handful of metres ahead of you with any real clarity, and distances of a hundred metres or more are indiscernible.

Real darkness is used in games in order to create very tense atmospheres, and/or to simulate realistic circumstances. The former instance is best portrayed by games like Amnesia, the "and" by games like Metro, the "or" by games like ArmA or Ghost Recon, where it's dark but you can use night vision and stuff to essentially negate it in most cases.

The second kind of dark I'll call "soft darkness". Soft darkness is used for mood/ambiance/atmosphere but has very limited gameplay effects. This is the kind of darkness we see most often in games. There's really a laundry list to choose from, but good examples are Diablo 3, Teamfortress 2, Hal-Life 2, Left 4 Dead 1 and 2, and Skyrim.

Soft darkness is used when you want night time, and the "feel" of night time, but you're not making one of the aforementioned games in which real darkness is appropriate. So you're not making a scary game, you're not making a scary/realistic game, or you're not making a realistic game. Games with soft darkness tend to be more accessible to players overall, and being out at night is not meant to in itself be a serious impediment to gameplay.

With that said, which is appropriate for Planetside 2? Are they making a game about scary, dark places? Maybe they're making a really tense shooter that's all about gritty realism? Or maybe the game will be about accurately portraying warfare in the year something-something?

No! No to all of it. Planetside 2 is a quasi-realistic shooter, just like Planetside 1 was. Real darkness in this case has no place. For the kind of game that Planetside games are, having darkness be a real impediment to gameplay is totally inappropriate.

Oh, and I guess I'll also say: One time I played a game and it was dark and I didn't like it. Or whatever you claim I've been saying this whole time. Even though I actually really like dark games and always get the "darker nights" mods for Fallout 3/NV/Skyrim/Stalker/etc. It's just that it isn't right for the kind of game Planetside 2 is going to be.


Final thought. I'm not saying that night should be the exact same brightness as day. It can even be dark enough that people could benefit from having night vision, flash lights, etc. Dark enough that a cloaker could move more easily without being seen. But if it's so dark that people can't effectively engage at long range even without some kind of illumination attachment, where people would have to rely on some kind of illuminating equipment to see what the hell is going on like in real darkness, that is what I'm saying is inappropriate. Again, dig the examples I've provided. There are times in Skyrim where having a torch helps, in HL2 where using your flash light is useful. But you're never blind without these tools, and you can always see fairly well. That's what this game needs to do.

Last edited by Warborn; 2012-02-03 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 2012-02-03, 09:37 PM   [Ignore Me] #127
AncientVanu
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Re: Make night time dark.


^^ Nice post, I agree with everything you said and the last paragraph sums it up pretty well.
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Old 2012-02-03, 10:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #128
Vancha
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Re: Make night time dark.


Originally Posted by Warborn View Post
First one, let's call it "real darkness". Real darkness attempts to simulate the kind of darkness we simple folk experience on moonless nights with no snow cover, where you can't see more than a handful of metres ahead of you with any real clarity, and distances of a hundred metres or more are indiscernible.

Real darkness is used in games in order to create very tense atmospheres, and/or to simulate realistic circumstances. The former instance is best portrayed by games like Amnesia, the "and" by games like Metro, the "or" by games like ArmA or Ghost Recon, where it's dark but you can use night vision and stuff to essentially negate it in most cases.

The second kind of dark I'll call "soft darkness". Soft darkness is used for mood/ambiance/atmosphere but has very limited gameplay effects. This is the kind of darkness we see most often in games. There's really a laundry list to choose from, but good examples are Diablo 3, Teamfortress 2, Hal-Life 2, Left 4 Dead 1 and 2, and Skyrim.

Soft darkness is used when you want night time, and the "feel" of night time, but you're not making one of the aforementioned games in which real darkness is appropriate. So you're not making a scary game, you're not making a scary/realistic game, or you're not making a realistic game. Games with soft darkness tend to be more accessible to players overall, and being out at night is not meant to in itself be a serious impediment to gameplay.

With that said, which is appropriate for Planetside 2? Are they making a game about scary, dark places? Maybe they're making a really tense shooter that's all about gritty realism? Or maybe the game will be about accurately portraying warfare in the year something-something?

No! No to all of it. Planetside 2 is a quasi-realistic shooter, just like Planetside 1 was. Real darkness in this case has no place. For the kind of game that Planetside games are, having darkness be a real impediment to gameplay is totally inappropriate.
This has to be some of the worst reasoning in regards to whether something should be added to a game I've ever heard.
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Old 2012-02-03, 10:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #129
Warborn
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Re: Make night time dark.


Good rebuttal. I hadn't considered those points you brought up there. Touche sir. Well-played.
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Old 2012-02-03, 10:51 PM   [Ignore Me] #130
Vancha
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Re: Make night time dark.


X has only appeared in Y and Z.

A isn't Y or Z.

Therefore, X is completely inappropriate for A.

Do I really need to explain the problems with that?
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Old 2012-02-03, 11:03 PM   [Ignore Me] #131
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Re: Make night time dark.


Originally Posted by Vancha View Post
X has only appeared in Y and Z.

A isn't Y or Z.

Therefore, X is completely inappropriate for A.
Pretty much the summary of Warborn's post.
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Old 2012-02-03, 11:22 PM   [Ignore Me] #132
Warborn
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Re: Make night time dark.


Originally Posted by Vancha View Post
Do I really need to explain the problems with that?
No, of course you're right, it's all just a coincidence, I'm sure of it.

Players don't like to not know what the hell is going on. Nobody likes getting killed by someone they can't even see because it's too dark. People don't tolerate that kind of stuff unless it's just that kind of game. Planetside 2 isn't that kind of game. Instead it's something that is meant to appeal to as broad an audience as possible. Putting in amazingly frustrating experiences like really dark nights would drive off more people than it would ensnare with its lame appeal to strategy or depth.

It isn't an accident that games like Fallout 3 or Half-Life 2 have pretty bright nights and somehow manage to be Game of the Year material. People who're looking to play a game like Fallout 3 or Half-Life 2 aren't looking for the kind of experience that consists of roaming around in the dark, unable to see anything, while someone, somewhere shoots them in the balls. Ditto for Planetside 2.

You can say that, well, if you use teamwork and coordination and something-something, but most people will not be actively working together when they play the game. Only a minority will ever really get organized. So making something that demands coordination and teamwork to achieve anything will only make the game what they call "inaccessible". Which is "not a good thing".

Originally Posted by Zulthus View Post
zero content, nothing of value even attempted
This is an accurate summary of every post you've ever made.

Last edited by Warborn; 2012-02-03 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 2012-02-03, 11:58 PM   [Ignore Me] #133
Zulthus
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Re: Make night time dark.


Originally Posted by Warborn View Post

This is an accurate summary of every post you've ever made. [citation needed]
Please back this up with evidence. All 800+ of my posts.
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Old 2012-02-04, 01:32 AM   [Ignore Me] #134
Saintlycow
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Re: Make night time dark.


It has to be dark without being dark. Hrm
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Old 2012-02-04, 03:17 AM   [Ignore Me] #135
Bags
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Re: Make night time dark.


WArborn, if you play on PC you should never need a torch in Skyrim.

just sayin'
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