BR40 confirmed - Page 9

Gonefshn · 2012-06-01, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

So why does everyone whine at 'super soldiers' such as our friend Dreamcast?

If you were better than them you could kill them before any of their 'support' certs came into play, which then brings up the point, why introduce these 'loadout' restrictions in the first place?

The Heavy class is still going to have anti-infantry (HA/MA) and anti-vehicle weapons (AV/Deci), along with recharging shields (med/eng). Where is the difference with the classic 'super soldier'?

People bitched and whined about BR40 and proper 'super soldiers' yet they all seem cool with essentially the very same mechanic in PS2, where's the fucking consistency?

Let me refute your obvious incoming 'Yeah but you can only be one class at a time and have to change at terms'.

No shit, you think BR40s could somehow magically turn into MAXes just by being BR40?
They had to go to a DESTRUCTABLE terminal and change favourites.

I'm definitely not whining about super soliders myself I don't think it matters but you seem to be neglecting one major thing no matter how many times people say it. And yes you said, "Let me refute your obvious incoming 'Yeah but you can only be one class at a time and have to change at terms."

There is consistency in what we are saying. You stated above that HA can already have AV and AI weapons in PS2. This is true. But in PS1 you could carry an AV weapon and an AI weapon at the same time, not only that but the best AV and best AI weapons at the same time. THAT is the difference. In PS2 you'll have to pick between rolling with AV weapons or AI weapons. 1 at a time. You can't adapt to any situation. And the recharging shields don't compare to having Engi and Medic with you because you can't heal your health.

In the new PS2 class system and let me be more specific and say the way loadouts work. You pick a role, and more importantly you pick one main gun. The super solider in PS1 could have more than one main weapon and be as effective against all enemy types at once. The new system is making this less possible. I realize in the old game you had to respawn to change gear like to a MAX. My point however is in PS1 you could pick a loadout that has effective weapons against everything. In PS2 you cannot.

Blackwolf · 2012-06-01, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Kriegson

Imo trolling consists of someone intelligent making a provocative statement and then backing off and watching everyone flame each other afterwards.
Any jackass who makes a stupid, opinionated or uneducated comment can fall back on "LOLOL I TROLL U!" in an attempt to remain an internet cool guy.

Imo, your opinion is unjustified.

I have never seen an intelligent troll. Most troll posts I've seen involve the OP fueling it with gradually increasing absurdity until finally everyone get's fed up and stops paying attention. And 90% of these trolls end every sentence with "lol" which, imo, is the mark of ignorance or drug abuse.

As for the "super soldier" discussion. You people need to get a strait definition going. I don't care how many certs someone can have in PS1, if they sucked they sucked, certs wouldn't help them much. To me, this immediately eliminates any and all possible meanings to the term as it applies to PS1. The only thing that came close to super soldiers in PS1 was when they had that Black Ops crap going. Didn't matter how bad you were, if you had 1000 health and a instant kill sword and could use any weapon under your certifications (any HA/MA regardless of original empire), you were going to not suck.

It seems to me that the issues everyone has with "Super Soldiers" isn't that they can do everything. It's more related to the fact that they are a good deal better then you at the game in general, and you just want to blame their larger number of certs rather then, yanno, accepting the fact that you just flat out died.

Certs don't improve your survival odds, experience does. Stop acting like PS1 and PS2 are like WoW where you can get ganked by someone 5 levels higher then you and be completely stomped.

Figment · 2012-06-01, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

Sorry Figment, I thought you were ready for this. Apparently your sense of humor comes and goes.

If it's any consolation, there also used to be 'Malorning', which can be described as falsely attributing a victory that was achieved with 75% population to superior tactics.

You can't expect a post like that to come over as funny tbh. If it was a joke you should consider how it is read by others as well. I didn't read it as a joke but a random jab. Hell, Wasn't even participating in the topic: it isn't directed directly at me, meaning it comes over as 'behind my back ridiculing and mood setting'.

Perhaps it isn't my sense of humour that comes and goes, but simply your delivery and not considering the audience. And maybe it is just bad taste, at least I'd never use 'Malorning' regardless of how much I disagree with him.

I don't attack or ridicule certain members we both clash with in random topics either for the sake of ridiculing or venting.

Xyntech · 2012-06-01, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

Yes, it's completely broken and I'm struggling to wonder why I get called a troll for pointing out the blatantly obvious similarity of BR40 and PS2 certs.

I've already spoken my peace, on the issue. I don't believe BR40 was inherently bad. All that was bad were some of the combinations of certs that could be used simultaneously being poorly thought out and balanced, especially when players were given more leeway with BR40 instead of 20.

Certainly we may have certs like auto heal, but auto heal won't revive your dead team mate. It won't restore some of your health in the 5 seconds between one enemy and the next. The class system will make it easier for the devs to tweak all of these systems as well, so they don't have to worry about inadvertently nerfing or buffing one group of players while trying to fix other thing.

I believe that the reason others (and at times I myself) consider you a troll is because your points aren't very clear. You drone on and on about how this or that is broken or how terrible this or that is in the first or second game, but you don't seem to have a coherent ongoing point in all of it and you aren't talking much about solutions.

As I speak more to you, I tend to lean less towards thinking you a troll and more towards thinking you misguided, or just poor at communicating your message perhaps?

Anyhow, as I've said, I've spoken my peace. What ever anyone elses complaints about BR40 or definitions of super soldiers, I personally believe that the PS2 class system will be a lot healthier for the game than BR40 turned out for Planetside, even if they are very similar on the surface. The devil is in the details, or in this case, the solution is in the details.

Bobby Shaftoe · 2012-06-01, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Xyntech

As I speak more to you, I tend to lean less towards thinking you a troll and more towards thinking you misguided, or just poor at communicating your message perhaps?

True and valid points, the problem being that it's hard to pin down just thinking of the cert system as something purely independent of the gameplay, when they've made so many design changes for the rest of the game viz constant 3 ways the whole game is still a nebulous cloud rather than a solid determinate shape.

Perhaps if I explain it in terms of limiting factors.

In PS1 you could only use/pull something you had certed and certs were very limited. (also soft limits such as vehicle timers)
In PS2 there will only be soft limits due to resources.

What then, is there to prevent having 665 specced out Aircav dominate the area/camp the exits and one galaxy landing, everyone hopping out of their vehicles and then getting their various fully specced out infantry classes. There is no scarcity, no choice making, just get the biggest/best thing for the job each and every time.