Drop pods, and the lack of SOI. - Page 9

sunzen · 2012-07-10, 03:17 PM

Didnt higby say in an interview something about the control points controlling various parts of the base and one of those was shields? Maybe thats what the shields are they block drop pods from being spawned in on rooftops etc

This would add a new perspective to the debate and I actually like it.

Rivenshield · 2012-07-10, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Atheosim

I'm honestly far more concerned with the design of the bases. Like OP said, they just look like deathmatch arenas and don't have proper chokepoints.

Yeah. No doors, no SOI, etc. = no real way for a small resourceful group with their act squared away to stop a raging zergfest.

I'm pleased enough with what I see in the way of look and feel to wait until beta, though. Except for those God damned FACILITY DEFENDED/CAPTURED/WHATEVER popups every few seconds right in my fucking face. Even just watching the video on YouTube I felt like I was watching a cheap old 3D movie where they dangle shit right in front of your face because it's 3D LOL.

That one noob · 2012-07-10, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by WildVS

What are these guys supposed to be dropping from?

From each of their respective battle barges, can you not see?
They are performing teh manuver stehl rehn.

Synapse · 2012-07-10, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

Yeah. No doors, no SOI, etc. = no real way for a small resourceful group with their act squared away to stop a raging zergfest.

I'm pleased enough with what I see in the way of look and feel to wait until beta, though. Except for those God damned FACILITY DEFENDED/CAPTURED/WHATEVER popups every few seconds right in my fucking face. Even just watching the video on YouTube I felt like I was watching a cheap old 3D movie where they dangle shit right in front of your face because it's 3D LOL.

You should really read one of the 12 threads already on that subject.

twistnlick · 2012-07-10, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

Yeah. No doors, no SOI, etc. = no real way for a small resourceful group with their act squared away to stop a raging zergfest.

They could try dynamic SOI's...based on the amount of "control points" taken... as more of the base is captured the SOI shrinks...

OutlawDr · 2012-07-10, 03:46 PM

Squad spawning used as "intended" in not a problem imo. It will mostly likely have 5min+ cooldown so it can not be used reliably over and over...and you need someone on the ground already there for it to be use it. However I do see it being able sidestep the need for galaxy drops by players coordinating all-in drops which is a problem. If there are SOI restrictions, it pretty much makes squad-spawing worthless for attackers, and defenders have the facilities to spawn from.... so I don't see that as a good solution.

Implement a progressive squad-wide cooldown for squad spawning. Something that allows it to be used as intended, but discourages all-in spawning.

For example, when a squad member drops within 30 seconds of the last guy, the game takes note. For each subsequent squad member that drops within 30 seconds of the last guys, a progressively longer cooldown time is incurred. The squads cooldown overrides the players individual cooldown, unless the players cooldown is longer.

So first guy drops...nothing happens
Second guys drops within 30 sec of first...game takes note..
Third guy drops within 30 sec of second...next guy must wait 10 seconds
Fourth guy drops within 30 of third...next guy waits 20 seconds
Fifth guy drops within 30 of fourth...next guy waits 30 seconds
After that everyone must wait at least 30 seconds

Once the "game takes note" the squad must wait around 3 minutes with no one dropping within 30 seconds of the last guy before it all resets again. Something like that. Not only does it make all in drops pretty much impossible, but punishes squads for dying a lot. A good squad won't even notice it though.

MrBloodworth · 2012-07-10, 04:08 PM

It was not useless before. But this system breaks the siege game play. Defenders always have the advantage in any engagement. That's war.

Littleman · 2012-07-10, 04:52 PM

A limit on the number of people capable of spawning on their squad leader should do nicely. 2 or 3, with each slot on it's own timer?

Longer cooldown timers would help too.

But this doesn't stop people from reaching places they normally wouldn't without a galaxy to get them there.

Then I remembered bases aren't the only thing we'll be fighting over in PS2, there are towers and bunkers with resources/hexes attached to them as well to fight over. An area of denial regarding drop pods around each base seems to be a good solution on top of capped drops and timers. Towers and bunkers might not be immune to drop pods, but at least a base won't have people raining down from its rafters or dropping on point C because their squad lead is hiding nearby.

But then, until we experience beta, we're probably making the issue sound far worse than it really is.

Talek Krell · 2012-07-10, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by thegreekboy

Someone needs to make a list of all the stuff we need to wait until beta to discuss

I think we have one of those. It's called "Planetside 2 Discussion"

infected · 2012-07-10, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

snip

we'll have to see what changes. i'm not sure it will go back to being squad leader only. more likely they will allow you to spawn on any squadmate but with a 5? minute cooldown.

the problem with just squad leader being the only spawn point is its just too much burden on the position. the squad is 10 players, far more than a squad in bf2 when it worked. it worked great in bf2 because that he didn't have any other roles, it was session based, and small map/travel time in comparison to ps2. it just might not feel right in this world if squad leaders are expected to do other things.

ps2, where a squad leader will be expected to do many things that a bf2 squad leader could not. that's the bigger reason not to do this. surely SOE has many plans for certs for a squad leader with many roles in mind. well you can probably throw all those out the window if the burden of being the only spawn point is on the table.

just because bf2 squad spawn was less broken than bf3 squad spawning, doesn't mean it should be implemented in ps2, and doesn't mean bf3 type wouldn't be better in ps2 if given certain restrictions that you do not see in bf3 (like a cooldown).

oh, and as a side note, as for predicting ps2 vehicles relevance not being negated because drop pods, because "squads easily get wiped in bf3 in 64" player servers or whatever... well those maps are too small for 64 players. that is to say the obj's are too close together, and enemy respawns are too fast (and also extremely close since they also spawn on squad members as well), and 64 players is too much for those maps under those conditions, so that's why its hard to stay alive in that game.

if there was no cooldown in ps2 for spawning on squad leader then we would have the same problem here. 5 minute cooldown seems like something worth testing.

SixShooter · 2012-07-10, 05:12 PM

I'm fine with how it is now, makes it really important for a good amount of CE to be set up inside the base. I will note that the cool down timer needs to be way more than 120 seconds, more like 5 - 10 minutes would be much better.

I also noticed on the vid that it look that there were at least 3 choices to squad spawn from. Hopefully this was only due to dev magic because if not, that would mean that it's not confined to the squad leader which would be bad.
**edit**
I could be wrong about what i was seeing....

vVRedOctoberVv · 2012-07-10, 05:16 PM

I did notice the lack of doors, and the much more open environments. It DOES kind of feel more like a death match arena. I don't mind some of it being like this, but I think TOO open, for base interiors, is going too far the other way.

thegreekboy · 2012-07-10, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Synapse

I did. This is already on it.

:theMoreYouKnow:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=42316

fvdham · 2012-07-10, 05:16 PM

I noticed that the PS2 drop pod has the same (fast) speed all the time,
while the PS1 drop pod slows down just before the touch down.

DarkChiron · 2012-07-10, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by SixShooter

I'm fine with how it is now, makes it really important for a good amount of CE to be set up inside the base. I will note that the cool down timer needs to be way more than 120 seconds, more like 5 - 10 minutes would be much better.

I also noticed on the vid that it look that there were at least 3 choices to squad spawn from. Hopefully this was only due to dev magic because if not, that would mean that it's not confined to the squad leader which would be bad.
**edit**
I could be wrong about what i was seeing....

Squad spawn CD is 5 minutes in that video. He squad spawns, dies 2 minutes later, then has a 3 minute CD still left on squad spawning again. It was around 28 minutes into that youtube video of his stream.

Those top 3 things on the list are all people in his squad. You can just squad spawn on whoever, I guess. I don't really care one way or the other on that.

Originally Posted by vVRedOctoberVv

I did notice the lack of doors, and the much more open environments. It DOES kind of feel more like a death match arena. I don't mind some of it being like this, but I think TOO open, for base interiors, is going too far the other way.

Biodomes with the latticework structure over them seem like they will not be wide open bases. In fact, they seem like a very closed off, multi-tiered base from the looks of it.