Gore Pack Idea

[Fanglord]

I would like to see some level of gore, I think it cheapens games that try and lower rating by ommiting abit of blood in a war game. The war/shooting/killing should before me is more potent in setting the age rating; it adds a level of polish. It also just looks silly when people fall over after being hit with a grenade/tank shell.

Doesn't have to be insane but it definitely adds the felling of impact plus for those that don't like it, can always be turned off.

[Nolerhn]

I'm not so sure that video games (or media in general) really desensitizes people to violence/gore. Take me for example, I'm 25 years old, I've been playing video games basically ever since I was around 5. I've played many violent games, all the Grand Theft Auto games, Bulletstorm, TF2, the Devil May Cry series, most Resident Evil games, the list goes on. Hell, in MGS: Snake Eater, there were times when I would intentionally shoot the legs of my enemies just to watch them limp around. I would often do the million stab attack in DMC games just b/c it looked cool to rapidly stab my enemies.

However, I'm currently in a radiography program. During my first semester of clinicals last year, I vividly remember my first surgery rotation. There was a forearm surgery. When I saw the surgeon open up the patient's arm, and I was freely able to look at the insides of the patient's arm-- bone, ligaments, blood vessels, and muscles, I nearly fainted. It wasn't even violent, this happened in a controlled environment, and it bothered me. Yet, before, in video games, nothing of the sort has every bothered me, it even entertained me. The real thing bothers me. It still does to this day somewhat during clinicals. I mostly just listen to the surgeon to say their ready for me, line up my equipment, and watch my screen instead of looking at the inside of a patient's incision.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, if something like a gore pack could happen, and it would make SOE money for a F2P game, I'm all for it. I wouldn't personally buy it though.

[Tehroth]

Originally Posted by Flaropri

For my part, I agree that video game and other media violence does not promote violent tendencies. There is a difference between desensitizing (or acclimating) someone to something and inciting someone to it. But this idea that it doesn't desensitize (or acclimate) people is fantasy.


Anyway, the topic is more complex than it's made out to be most of the time. Desensitizing or acclimating people isn't just limited to video games or imagery either of course; but I'd rather not get too off topic for too long

Video game violence does not completely desensitize someone in real life its a combination. Maybe if we had TV shows like the "Running man" or public executions then people would be use to people dying. Our culture and people have gradually changed over the years and yes we have become less censored as opposed to the 50s where undergarments were considered nudity and blood was considered taboo.

Those that decipher real life from video games or movies are the only ones that really would be desensitized, but they most likely be clinically impaired mentally. I like our freedom in that regard, but to take someone else's choice away because another person couldn't handle fantasy is folly.

Yes certain cultures have made people more prone to do things such as the gangsta rap music genre, but that is because those certain people don't have the mental capacity to see what they are doing is wrong, but most likely would do similar negative activities regardless.

TLDR: Certain people don't have a conscience or mental capacity to see what is right or wrong.

[Serotriptomine]

No way in hell i'm never going to get desensitized to death.
It's entertainment, it's not a way of life.
I'm scared of dying and people dying. Idk.

[megamold]

if soe think a gore pack could get them some extra cash then sure, but i wont be buying it since for some reason gore doesnt seem to fit with planetside for me.

[Mox]

Originally Posted by Tehroth

Blood and violence in video games does not promote violent tendencies in people. If someone is violent they will be regardless without an outlet.

Sorry mate but you are not right. Several scientific studies have shown that violent video games foster violent behavior. That doesn't mean that everybody who play this kind of game will slaughter his neighbours. It just means that the amount of people showing violent behavior after excessiv playing of violent video games is significantly higher compared to people who played other video games. Nevertheless, there are a bunch of other influencing factors (e.g. social status, education, family, etc.)

[opticalshadow]

Originally Posted by Mox

Sorry mate but you are not right. Several scientific studies have shown that violent video games foster violent behavior. That doesn't mean that everybody who play this kind of game will slaughter his neighbours. It just means that the amount of people showing violent behavior after excessiv playing of violent video games is significantly higher compared to people who played other video games. Nevertheless, there are a bunch of other influencing factors (e.g. social status, education, family, etc.)

there were also sevral studies that showed they didnt, and in fact help people because it gave them an outlet for frustration.


heres the deal, if you do something wrong its on you, you have free will, that means you have the capacity to choose not to do something. if you dont, then your not competent, and video games aretn the problem anyways.

[Mox]

Originally Posted by opticalshadow

there were also sevral studies that showed they didnt, and in fact help people because it gave them an outlet for frustration.

I know these studies as well. It is question if you talk about shortterm or longterm effects. Longterm effects of violent videogaming are more questionable than shortterm.

By the way, the "outlet for fustration" argument isn't up to date anymore.

Originally Posted by opticalshadow

heres the deal, if you do something wrong its on you, you have free will, that means you have the capacity to choose not to do something. if you dont, then your not competent, and video games aretn the problem anyways.

Sorry, but that is no scientific argument.

Violent behavior is always an outcome of multiple factors. Just playing violent video games is not enough. Together with e.g. a bad childhood or bad social environment or less education playing violent video games may foster violent behavior. Especially if the gamer is still a child or teenager. Thats why most countries have child protection laws.

I think it is important that every adult should have the freedom to play or watch whatever he likes. But regarding to childern there must be clear restrictions.

[Flaropri]

Guess I'll go with the long version.

Originally Posted by Tehroth

Video game violence does not completely desensitize someone in real life its a combination.

Agreed, as I said in previous posts, it's all in gradients, and it effects different people differently. It isn't some "black and white" thing, and the amount of effect depends on the person. Some people will be less effected by repeated exposure than others (and that will likely vary from subject to subject as well).

There's also the flipside potential, particularly when accompanied by trauma, that something could become overly sensitive or even a phobia. While a fictional character, Ranma (of Ranma 1/2) gained a phobia of cats due to repeated trauma from his father. But these cases are relatively rare. Also, again as I said previously, there are multiple differences between reality and video games that add additional details that people won't be desensitized to regardless. Scent, emotional burden, etc.

On the other hand, those that are repeatedly exposed to certain things will get acclimated to it. Another poster talked about being in a radiology program. While that person has chosen to avoid looking at the real thing, I think that they would, like the surgeons they work with, eventually get used to it if they did.

Another interesting example that draws a lot of what we've discussed together:

For a soldier on a battlefield, the first real combat is generally the most shocking. Subsequent battles are less shocking, but still have an impact on most people, to the point that many soldiers unfortunately kill themselves because the nature of war isn't something they can adjust to (and/or they don't like the idea of what they'd become if they did).

Individual leanings and pliability, general acclimation, and social norms all play a role in what people are sensitive to, and to what degree. When it comes to "genetics" vs. "education" I'm a firm believer that both play a role in the development of a personality. I think it's oversimplifying it to wholly blame environment when someone does something wrong (blame the people that do bad things, I say), but it is also oversimplifying it to say that people will do things as they do regardless of culture, education, or other outside stimulus.

Propaganda for example, while generally different from what we're talking about here, very much has an impact on societies. With "The West" constantly talking about how Iran is going to attack Israel or some other nation any moment now, people get used to the idea that Iran is a dangerous nation poised to start a war, even if they have no other information outside the talking points put out by the propagandists. Painting a target as a "threat" isn't something you can usually do over-night with just rhetoric, but it can be done without solid proof by acclimating people to the idea over time, even if the basic premise is a lie like the invasion of Iraq.

Propaganda can have a profound effect on an individuals outlook, again, pending initial leanings, mental or emotional pliability, and other factors. For example, many will be swayed by propaganda and support a given agenda without looking further into it. Some will reject propaganda and refuse to support the agenda, or even actively try to undermine it. Propaganda is a large-scale intentional effort to direct social and political discussion and thought, but that doesn't mean that small scale or unintentional directing occurs as part of societal growth, via the emergence of new situations, etc.


Desensitizing and propaganda are two different things, but they aren't unrelated. It is important, I guess, to repeat this: Desensitizing someone does not incite them to action. All it really means is that they are less likely to react to it, that it is "acceptable" and "normalized." Greater degrees of it can result in an escalation based on a desire to react to it. For example, someone might get bored of porn (work with me here) so they look for kinkier stuff to get them excited, or need to get a real sex partner to get the same or greater level of excitement that they used to get when they first got into it.

Someone who likes seeing blood that gets desensitized to it due to saturation would seek out greater graphical detail or something similar. However, in neither case does the desensitizing increase or inspire the initial desire to get that excitement, and for most people, it won't degrade enough from the initial activity to make a real difference in behavior.

Also, being desensitized to something isn't always bad. A surgeon that is unable to get over the shock of blood isn't going to do very well for very long. A police officer that is able to get over having killed a criminal and the possibility of having to do so again will generally have a healthier mental and emotional outlook than one that can't. Race car drivers that freak out at acceleration are also not going to do particularly well in their field.

I don't think that the effect video games and other media have on people is strong or damaging enough that I would try to stop them or censor them. I much prefer liberty. However, that isn't going to keep me from expressing disappointment when people ask for the imagery of literally blowing bodies apart. I'm also not going to pretend that there is no effect.


TL;DR: In the argument of "Nature vs. Nurture" I believe both play a role, and trying to say it's only one or the other is oversimplifying things. Violence in media has a desensitizing effect, though the strength of that effect (and possibility of rejection) varies from person to person. For the third time: Desensitizing someone is not the same as inciting them. People that argue that video games cause violence (likely the opposite honestly) are just as wrong as people that say that media has no effect on society or individuals.

[morf]

Originally Posted by Flaropri

Doesn't ESRB not apply to online play anyway?

ESRB always says "game experience may change during online play."

This is a polite way of saying "yeah Elmo's Circus Adventure is rated E for everyone but if you go play online you will inevitably run into some kid who likes to say stuff like "OMFG U C*&T GODD*&% C*CKSICKLES FCU&*KING STUPID BLACK '8&&34 ****"

[Tactical Pony]

Originally Posted by MCYRook

I guess it does, if you're 15 years old.

or maybe, just maybe, he is however old he is, and your judgement doesn't change that.

how about that trash, crazy philosophical nonsense right there!

[Piper]

PS2 is/will be a violent game. Difficult to dispute? It represents acts of violence. Heck its very purpose is to represent acts of violence for the sake of entertainment?

The above represents violence for the sake of entertainment?

Is this a discussion on why we shouldn't represent violence in our cultures at all, in which case why are any of us on these of all forums, or is it a discussion about the manner in which we choose to represent it?

"Inconsequential" violence, ala T&J is in itself an oddity, surely, to represent to those of a certain age at least?

[Sledgecrushr]

I really dont care for the psycho analysis of all this. I would purchase if the price is right a so called gore pack so I can have a little extra effects in my game.

[Noctis]

tldr I want Quake 3 Arena effects.

[Masterr]

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

I really dont care for the psycho analysis of all this. I would purchase if the price is right a so called gore pack so I can have a little extra effects in my game.

Same...seems like we have a like of psychology majors here.

Originally Posted by Noctis

tldr I want Quake 3 Arena effects.

if those effects consist of the announcer going "headshot" id like that in every fps game i play, lol.