The Return of BFRs??? - Page 9

MrMak · 2013-04-11, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Mietz

High mobility is essentially a few magnitudes higher in balance than raw damage output or armor because avoidance is far more useful in this game (see ESF, Mag, vs other MBT/Liberator)

The questions are:
a. would the mechs be treated as vehicles?
a1. would the lock on launchers be able to lock on to them?
b. do they strafe?
c. How high is the weapons platform situated? (shooting over shields, locking down vertical spawn shield exits in spawn-rooms)
d. do small weapons damage them?
e. can they be knocked over?
f. armament?

To hit a mag with a dumbfire launcher is hard unless you are -very- close and if the mech has a rotating turret it essentially negates the 80° vision impairment of magriders.

Essentially the concern is to not create the equivalent of an ESF on the ground with high mobility, low armor and massive firepower.

Based on what the author wrote on the official forums their primary straights would be manuverability and ability to traverse terrain with only marginaly superior firepower to tanks if both guns were focused into AV (That might be a bit much though perhaps keeping the firepower in between a lightning and MBT with a dual AP setup wpuld be mroe reasonable) While their primary weaknesses would be speed (the TR one would be the fastest and it owuld only barely match an unupgraded vanguard in speed) and low armor (the NC mech being the most durable would have an equal ammount of "hp" to a lightning but its front armor woudl take 100% damage liek thel ightning's side armor, the other mechs woudl be even mroe fragile)

Thare are also many rational ways to balance sush cmall mechs. For instance if it turns out infantry has a bit too much problems agains them in bases you could make the rear armor vunerable to small arms to a degree or even make the whole thing merely resistant to it rather than completly bulletproof.

Just stick to 1 rule. If it goes head on with a tank it looses.

PurpleOtter · 2013-04-11, 11:00 AM

One of the things that really bothered me about the original BFR's (aside from the horrid balance issues of course) was the dreadful walking animations. They moved like an epileptic having a grand mal seizure while being strung out on meth. The audio wasn't much better either.

Whiteagle · 2013-04-11, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Mietz

High mobility is essentially a few magnitudes higher in balance than raw damage output or armor because avoidance is far more useful in this game (see ESF, Mag, vs other MBT/Liberator)

The questions are:
a. would the mechs be treated as vehicles?
a1. would the lock on launchers be able to lock on to them?
b. do they strafe?
c. How high is the weapons platform situated? (shooting over shields, locking down vertical spawn shield exits in spawn-rooms)
d. do small weapons damage them?
e. can they be knocked over?
f. armament?

To hit a mag with a dumbfire launcher is hard unless you are -very- close and if the mech has a rotating turret it essentially negates the 80° vision impairment of magriders.

Essentially the concern is to not create the equivalent of an ESF on the ground with high mobility, low armor and massive firepower.

Well this is exactly why I like to sum up a "Scout Walker" as "A Flash with Legs."

They'd come with the same weapons as the Flash, so they're not going to be terribly powerful offensively.

They'd be barely faster then sprinting Infantry going straight out, so they'd be perfect for supporting an Infantry pushes instead of replacing it.

Being a single story in height give the pilot better visibility then someone standing on the ground, but the open cockpit also makes them more vulnerable to sniper fire.

As a vehicle, they're just a Flash that sacrifices speed for better handling and turning.
Plus they wouldn't come with a passenger seat, instead get a Basilisk as a Default Defensive Weapon, so they wouldn't even replace the vehicle they share a niche with.

My own ABRF concepts however fill an entirely different Combat niche, being Amphibious One-man Combat Vehicles that won't have a theater until we get Oceans and Naval Combat.
Only the Vanu version wouldn't be LESS mobile on land due to its hovering nature, and even then would be the weakest armed of the three since the Magrider can also float over water.
The other two are less "Tank with Legs" and more "Submarine with Legs."

Wahooo · 2013-04-11, 05:33 PM

I've posted this before... and so many posts like it...

It is really the symbolic presence as much as anything and what they (BFR's) have come to represent in the overall "what went wrong with PS1".

There are a ton of different factors that lead to a population decline of PS1 and deserved or not BFRs have taken the brunt of the blame. What that means is they now symbolize ruin and downfall and the epitome of the Devs crapping on the player base.

A bit harder to find now with PS2 having been out for a few months but a year ago or so if you found mention of Planetside on some random game forum or searched through the comments on any random youtube video about PS1 you would find comment after comment "I loved the game until BFR's" or "I played from release until BFRs".

It has just become worked into the lore of PS1 that BFR's were the death of the game. There is no arguing because it is coming from a sentimental point of view, BFR's killed the game period end of story, and it is so pervasive there is just no room for recovery.

Now what about them killed it? A load of different things. The mechanics to get them were so different than anything else in the game, left a very bitter taste to a lot of people. They lagged the fuck out of the game. Even after they were nerfed the hitboxes and shield played havoc on FPS for many people that never had issues anywhere else. They were stupid OP when the first came out, and the single driver/gunner for such a game changing vehicle didn't sit well with the PS1 style *cough* reaver *cough*.

Any way as I said the hatred is just ingrained and irrational. It is on the level of racism really, but the issue moving forward is what it represents in Planetside is Devs slapping the players in the face. I just don't see how that gets put into the game properly.

Added to this basically anything that is a walking mech like platform will = BFR.

MrMak · 2013-04-11, 05:46 PM

So essentily if BFRs were a type of tank isntead of Mechs people would flip out about anythign that resembles a tank?

Seems bout right.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-04-11, 07:01 PM

The BFR really needs to fill two different roles if it comes back
1-medium tank
2-needs three peole to operate at full capacity

So what Im thinking is something quick but just as fast as a magrider. It would have the punch of 2 lightning cannons but single shot HEAT instead of burst fire. It would also be lightly armored compared to a mbt, very nimble on its feet.

Now for the three crew two will be using the guns and the third will be very busy driving this quick nimble vehicle. I would want the driver spot to be demanding because a couple of rocket hits and this thing will go boom.

Falcon_br · 2013-04-11, 09:57 PM

I really don´t want another 3 people vehicle in planetside 2, it is already hard to find one good gunner for you liberator, try 2!
My suggestion is still the same, high mobile one pilot with weapon link a ESF so lone wolfs don´t need to suck bad just using a lighting.
And give it another tech prerequisite, like a bio lab, people already kill themselves a lot for Eisa!

Sledgecrushr · 2013-04-11, 10:49 PM

So we have seven vehicles in the game currently. And really we dont have a viable three man vehicle. Sure you can put three people in a liberator but generally that sucks ass for the tail gunner because he doesnt get a share of the belly gunners xp. Almost all libs are crewed by two people. Most MBTs are crewed by one person and pretty much all the other vehicles barring the galaxy are solo... We need a team oriented vehicle.

Falcon_br · 2013-04-12, 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

So we have seven vehicles in the game currently. And really we dont have a viable three man vehicle. Sure you can put three people in a liberator but generally that sucks ass for the tail gunner because he doesnt get a share of the belly gunners xp. Almost all libs are crewed by two people. Most MBTs are crewed by one person and pretty much all the other vehicles barring the galaxy are solo... We need a team oriented vehicle.

Ok, how about a Fatboy?

A mobile base where people can spawn MBTs, ESF, it have 4 general propose direct attack batteries (4 gunner), 2 anti air flak turrets (more 2 gunners), a driver, a torpedo launcher (no use in Planetside) and 2 landing pads so the ESF can rearm on it.

It is just a land version of a Titan from BF 2142, same type of canons and same number so gunners. Also a good option for the game.

Or they can make something like the Elephant from the Halo series, it was a AMS in the halo wars, spawning infantry near the enemy base, also in Halo 3 it got really power full weapon and it can carry some tanks on it. The perfect platoon land transport unit.

Or maybe we can just have the SBFR small battle frame robotics for one person and the CBFR colossal battle frame robotics that will ruin the game like they did on ps-1.

Rubius · 2013-04-12, 02:26 AM

I loved BFRs and eagerly anticipate their comeback. Though the devs may deny it for now, and though the whiners may whine about it, mark my words: BFRs will be back. They are a huge part of Planetside, and all the added weapons/upgrades will mean not only sales $$ for SoE, but also keep the game fresh. All those who have never played PS1 (most of PS2's population) will surely welcome BFRs. Those who are whining about it, will soon find out BFRs are awesome and will eat crow.

Canaris · 2013-04-12, 03:00 AM

Honestly anything else would be better than giant walking mechs to add into the game, hell I'd love to see them add in water regions with navies before I'd ever willingly give my accent to the other and I'm not to keen on those either.

There's so many other types of vehicle and combat zones we can create on Auraxis that don't require bringing the vehemence of hatred that BFRs have.

Let the Big Fubar Robo's go people.

Shogun · 2013-04-12, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

Ok, how about a Fatboy?

A mobile base where people can spawn MBTs, ESF, it have 4 general propose direct attack batteries (4 gunner), 2 anti air flak turrets (more 2 gunners), a driver, a torpedo launcher (no use in Planetside) and 2 landing pads so the ESF can rearm on it.

It is just a land version of a Titan from BF 2142, same type of canons and same number so gunners. Also a good option for the game.

Or they can make something like the Elephant from the Halo series, it was a AMS in the halo wars, spawning infantry near the enemy base, also in Halo 3 it got really power full weapon and it can carry some tanks on it. The perfect platoon land transport unit.

Or maybe we can just have the SBFR small battle frame robotics for one person and the CBFR colossal battle frame robotics that will ruin the game like they did on ps-1.

sounds amazing!

BUT have you looked at the ps2 maps?
where are you going to put such a beast? there is almost no empty space between all those bases and outposts. on the old giant ps1 maps a unit like that would have made sense, but the distances in ps2 are just not big enough to justify a mobile base.

back on topic, the BFR could just be a cosmetic variant of the tanks.
and despite the amount of hate the term BFR creates, it wouldn´t change anything. the actual tanks already are what BFRs were in ps1.
if those mechs make it back to planetside, the driver/gunner concept needs to come back too!

devs, please don´t carry over more stupid things from ps1 while denying to bring back the really good stuff from ps1 like driver/gunner tanks, useful combat engineers and spitfires, real cloakers and a TTK and colorsheme that allows to actually know what is hitting you before you die.

firestrike · 2013-04-12, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

Ok, how about a Fatboy?

A mobile base where people can spawn MBTs, ESF, it have 4 general propose direct attack batteries (4 gunner), 2 anti air flak turrets (more 2 gunners), a driver, a torpedo launcher (no use in Planetside) and 2 landing pads so the ESF can rearm on it.

It is just a land version of a Titan from BF 2142, same type of canons and same number so gunners. Also a good option for the game.

Or they can make something like the Elephant from the Halo series, it was a AMS in the halo wars, spawning infantry near the enemy base, also in Halo 3 it got really power full weapon and it can carry some tanks on it. The perfect platoon land transport unit.

Or maybe we can just have the SBFR small battle frame robotics for one person and the CBFR colossal battle frame robotics that will ruin the game like they did on ps-1.

1. the Fatboy use to spam that bad boy all the time so it's going to shoot and be able to spawn tank or we just going to use the gun?

2. A Titan looking ship is going to be ingame for all faction at some point right ?

3. The Elephant is what i was thinking of what a super sundy that can spawn tank and aircraft lol

Maarvy · 2013-04-12, 05:33 AM

If BFR's did make a comeback I'd like to see them on a outfit level .

For example you would need a oufit with at least a platoon size member base to begin to cert in to a BFR , It would be insanley expensive and require cert donations from the outfit member's to have any hope of unlocking one this decade .

Once unlocked it can be spawned once per day by any outfit leader and assigned a pilot through a new BFR pilot rank in the guild options .

Even with all these restriction it would only have hitpoints similar to a galaxy , and wepons on par with current ground and air vehicles .It would basicly just be some more guild braging rights to march your BFR across the map .

Sledgecrushr · 2013-04-12, 06:11 AM

We already have incredibly powerful vehicles. We dont need anymore of those. We need teamplay skill based vehicles that will fit in the margins of our already very strong lineup.