Question I REALLY want answered.

[Death2All]

Originally Posted by Bags

You guys do realize you need an equipment terminal to change role, right? Someone isn't going to go behind a tree with MA and pop out with a thumper.

That's not the issue. It's the fact that you can even do that. Classes don't belong in PS in my opinion. The certification system worked perfectly.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by DeeTwoEh

Since you can now "seamlessly" change classes and apparently cert whatever you want this time around it really diminishes the need for teamwork.

I see what you are saying here, but I gotta disagree. Even if everyone can do everything, you still need to perform roles, hence needing to rely on other people. For example, the best raids I've been in have used combined arms, so you still need people to fill the different roles. Or perhaps you want to all select the same thing like a max crash team, well more people would be able to participate.

I think this idea of a one-man-army-too-many-certs stems from the type of gameplay PS1 slipped into. By this I mean, the fights are all about the bases so you could fly your mosq, bail out over the base, run in with your HA, then repair and heal yourself. The problem is being able to do all those things at once, not that you are able to do them all.

But you are right, we really are going to have to wait and see when we get more information. The skill trees could be so deep it would take years to get them all at which point who knows what the expansions will bring. Or maybe there are some restrictions on certs. Most importantly, we are going to see how it will play in beta and I have faith in the devs.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by Raymac

I see what you are saying here, but I gotta disagree. Even if everyone can do everything, you still need to perform roles, hence needing to rely on other people. For example, the best raids I've been in have used combined arms, so you still need people to fill the different roles. Or perhaps you want to all select the same thing like a max crash team, well more people would be able to participate.

I think this idea of a one-man-army-too-many-certs stems from the type of gameplay PS1 slipped into. By this I mean, the fights are all about the bases so you could fly your mosq, bail out over the base, run in with your HA, then repair and heal yourself. The problem is being able to do all those things at once, not that you are able to do them all.

But you are right, we really are going to have to wait and see when we get more information. The skill trees could be so deep it would take years to get them all at which point who knows what the expansions will bring. Or maybe there are some restrictions on certs. Most importantly, we are going to see how it will play in beta and I have faith in the devs.

You make a good point, but I still would rather have it where players can only have one specialization per character. That's not to say they can't make another and follow a different path. I just feel it would add more to the teamplay aspect.

[Bags]

Originally Posted by DeeTwoEh

That's not the issue. It's the fact that you can even do that. Classes don't belong in PS in my opinion. The certification system worked perfectly.

While I like PS1 system better I don't think this will be too bad.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

You make a good point, but I still would rather have it where players can only have one specialization per character. That's not to say they can't make another and follow a different path. I just feel it would add more to the teamplay aspect.

You are right, of course, but I like this idea of giving players more options and becoming more versatile. From the sound of it, though, the skill trees will be so deep, you'll probably have to focus on a certain role or two for awhile anyways.

I think there is a nice balance somewhere between "Nobody can fly a Gal?" and "I'm gonna fly in with my reaver, bail out with my Jackhammer, use my jump jets, while I heal myself, and hack the base while I OS every enemy."

[Senyu]

From what I understood, every class or specilization has it's own progression. You may be a 20 pilot but still only be a 5 medic which was I think an example they actually used. So in sense you COULD have every cert but I beleive its only after progressing and finishing every tree.


Which if this is indeed how it is does give you a goal to work for in becoming 20 in everything but it just makes me ask whats next after you do it all.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by DeeTwoEh

The purpose of certifications was to make your character choose a role. This also emphasized teamwork because you'd have someone be a hacker, someone be the medic, someone be the MAX etc.

Since you can now "seamlessly" change classes and apparently cert whatever you want this time around it really diminishes the need for teamwork.


I really hope there is more clarification in the future or they're trolling us.

Someone will still need to hack, be the medic, and get in the max. Teamwork does not diminish. It just means everyone gets to take turns on what they do rather than be stuck in roles every night.


If this is indeed how the system works, then I greatly approve. I hated the recert timer, and felt it was a detriment to gameplay. I'm an indecisive person who likes switching up what I do on sometimes a daily basis.

Originally Posted by Senyu

Which if this is indeed how it is does give you a goal to work for in becoming 20 in everything but it just makes me ask whats next after you do it all.

In truth, I feel the rpg aspects are just dumb. Were it my choice there would be no levels, no goals, just the fight. Everything else distracts from that.

So. What do you do after you are maxed out? Simple.

Play the game.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by Senyu

Which if this is indeed how it is does give you a goal to work for in becoming 20 in everything but it just makes me ask whats next after you do it all.

Expansions and level cap increases. Isn't that what MMOs do?

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

In truth, I feel the rpg aspects are just dumb. Were it my choice there would be no levels, no goals, just the fight. Everything else distracts from that.

So. What do you do after you are maxed out? Simple.

Play the game.

What would there be to work for then?

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

What would there be to work for then?

Fun. I know, shocking, but some people play video games to have fun.

[Senyu]

I do enjoy the game for its simple Get out there and Kill instead of leveling to 80 and getting gear and shtuff. But if there is some form of progression such as a deep tree some people are mentioning I also really enjoy that. Building something over time and specilized is just fun.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by Senyu

I do enjoy the game for its simple Get out there and Kill instead of leveling to 80 and getting gear and shtuff. But if there is some form of progression such as a deep tree some people are mentioning I also really enjoy that. Building something over time and specilized is just fun.

QFT. The game would get boring if there wasn't anything to pursue.

[Redshift]

i'm not sold on the idea of having all certs and changing roles, the cert system stops you performing all roles brilliantly which i like,

I'd not like to reaver to a base drop out and pull a rexo HA from a term and still be able to pull MAX's at some other stage

i quite like that my grunting certs mean i can only afford a mossie, and i can't use a MAX because i have AMS/sniping instead

[Malorn]

My understanding of the system as it has been revealed*:

1) There is a huge skill tree with sub-trees that are roles you can play on the battlefield.

2) battle rank unlocks certs automatically across all trees. As you gain BR you unlock more certs, enabling those roles to do more/have more. So for example, if you switch to a pilot role you gain access to some basic weapons and the ability to fly aircraft. A higher BR pilot may have access to more specialized aircraft or other support certifications (repair, better weapons, etc).

3) You can switch roles at any time, at which time you gain access to all of the certs in that role. So you could walk up to a cert terminal and swap out of that pilot role into a MAX role.

4) You can train in certs specifically to gain enhancements in those certs, like upgrades to do that thing better and allow you to specialize further. This training is real-time and probably increases exponentially like EVE Online. (it could also be that you must train the first rank to use a cert at all, but like EVE the first rank trains quickly)


It seems as though it is like PS where if you were max BR and you had access to every cert, but the difference is you could only use subsets of them at any one time.

Additionally, there's another layer of specialization allowing you to do the roles you like better by investing time in them.

That's my understanding of the system. Matt mentioned that re-certing is unnecessary because you have access to all the certs, but not all at the same time. I believe my understanding is consistent with that statement, however I can still see where people would like to "respec" their specialization decisions, especially since these take real time to earn and shifting specializations from say an uber awesome tank driver to an uber awesome infantryman would not be quick, as you'd have to wait and train up all the infantry stuff. But in that case we might just be SOL and have to train it up in either case. I'm not sure the respec is entirely needed but I can see how some people would want one.

*: I could be entirely wrong here

[CutterJohn]

That is my understanding of it as well, except I believe battle rank just unlocks the certs that you can then train. Having a BR20 won't mean anything if you've not trained any of the certs.

He also said that you get BR far, far faster than you can train the certs you unlock, so I doubt having all certs trained will even be an issue for a year or two.