A Cloakers plea - Page 2

duomaxwl · 2011-07-21, 03:18 PM

Both the revised grief and friendlies seeing cloakers could work great.

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**Malorn** · 2011-07-21, 03:48 PM

Yes actually being able to see friendly cloakers would help.

So would removing the warping from PS1. Helps if the cloakers are actually at the location you think they are.

Chaff · 2011-07-21, 04:22 PM

I don't think the cloakers need much help. If you're invisible - part of the inherent risk SHOULD be from friendlies (clueless).

.....although in PS2...maybe the respective empires have advanced cloaking technology to where friendlies can "see" cloakers. Even then - kill whores will still mow them down in pursuit of kills. Cloakers will still need to stay on the fringe of things.

Usually I died (while cloaking) when I got greedy. Not being patient enough moving in on a sniper, dude repairing vehicle in field, or unattentive infantry. Or, being DUMB - trying to sneak into a crowded tower fight ..... especially stupid when plasma spamming is prevelent.

....it was worth the risk if it was a small-numbers tower fight - maybe only 2 opposing squads....then you had a real (yet slim) chance of sneaking down to the terminals, hacking out your pounder Max, taking down the spawn tubes, and accelerating you squad getting to the next objective.

I am more against allowing friendlies to see cloakers than I am for it, but I guess it's fine. This is getting into minutiae - micro-managing gameplay.

Treerat · 2011-07-21, 05:42 PM

I think my poor cloaker died about 5 times from friendly fire to every time he died from hostile fire. What made it worse was this was using a lot of tricks to avoid being found; sneaking right next to the wall, putting the enemy between my and my "comrades", or just trying to get across a road in the middle of almost nowhere only to get run down by an ANT or AMS, pegged (and revealed if not killed outright) by stray fire, etc. And that is excluding all the times just shooting at an enemy got my face filled with MCG rounds for, and I directly quote, "stealing a kill" in the middle of a multi-squad firefight.

Friendlies being able to see cloakers (even just the name tags when scoped in) would help. A grief system that could separate the normal "Grenade... CRAP!" from the "I'll just shoot through the cloaker" to "hahaha! Die silly no-HA-spamming fool!" intentional shots and punish accordingly (ie. careful-next-time to banned-for-6-months). In the later case I think factoring some of Battlefield2 forgive/ punish system would work. Perhaps if someone accumulated a set number of TK kills that were not forgiven the punishment would A) drastically escalate and B) flag that account for closer review by CSRs to determine if additional corrective measures are needed.

Bad positioning happens. So does pure dumb luck. But when people simply don't even care if they kill a friendly cloaker or intentionally do so, that says to me that there is a problem that needs some serious correction. I'm hopeful that this time SOE won't wait until the damage is already done before fixing problems (with the mechanics or the players).

Chaff · 2011-07-21, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Treerat

I think my poor cloaker died about 5 times from friendly fire to every time he died from hostile fire. What made it worse was this was using a lot of tricks to avoid being found; sneaking right next to the wall, putting the enemy between my and my "comrades", or just trying to get across a road in the middle of almost nowhere only to get run down by an ANT or AMS, pegged (and revealed if not killed outright) by stray fire, etc. And that is excluding all the times just shooting at an enemy got my face filled with MCG rounds for, and I directly quote, "stealing a kill" in the middle of a multi-squad firefight.

Friendlies being able to see cloakers (even just the name tags when scoped in) would help. A grief system that could separate the normal "Grenade... CRAP!" from the "I'll just shoot through the cloaker" to "hahaha! Die silly no-HA-spamming fool!" intentional shots and punish accordingly (ie. careful-next-time to banned-for-6-months). In the later case I think factoring some of Battlefield2 forgive/ punish system would work. Perhaps if someone accumulated a set number of TK kills that were not forgiven the punishment would A) drastically escalate and B) flag that account for closer review by CSRs to determine if additional corrective measures are needed.

Bad positioning happens. So does pure dumb luck. But when people simply don't even care if they kill a friendly cloaker or intentionally do so, that says to me that there is a problem that needs some serious correction. I'm hopeful that this time SOE won't wait until the damage is already done before fixing problems (with the mechanics or the players).

If cloaking existed in real life....would YOU risk standing in front of some HA grunt ? Gut instincst should tell you it is a BAD IDEA. Brutal as it is....it's realistic. The grief system seems to work. I hear what you're saying, but I tend to like it how it is. IMO cloakers only belong up-front near the heavy action for hacking or CE. Too many bullets flying to be near the front lines of heavy action when all you have on is your invisible jammies.

If the action is "light" friendlies should NOT TK you becasue it's easy & they're asshats. In those instances, I would support some sort of suspention/penalty as a possible solution to chronic offenders.

WarChimp130 · 2011-07-21, 06:30 PM

I used to spend a lot of time as a Cloaker, it was one of the main things I did and I used to like to live in the middle of a zerg pot shotting people with my Repeater. Did very well with it. But eventually all the gamma tweaking just got wayyyyyy to prevalent to bother with.

I think if you want to change it, make cloaking 100% invisible period while moving but give it a timer for movement. Like you can run for 30 seconds completely invisible but at the end of those 30 seconds you begin to show. If you stop and sit still for a while it recharges. Kinda of like the Cloak and Dagger in TF2 type of thing.

xcel · 2011-07-21, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by MgFalcon

I don't always roll sniper. But when I do, I shoot friendly cloakers.

This made me rofl.

SilverLord · 2011-07-21, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by duomaxwl

I'm not sure I agree with removal of reveal enemy. If you keep moving you shouldn't have an issue. What I would like to see is friendly fire damage reduced for cloakers. I die more to my NC "comrades" than I do to the enemies.

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I am completely against getting rid of reveal enemies as well, it is actually quite useful for spotting enemy AMS/Router as well as pesky cloakers that keeps hacking friendly deployables in our CY!

Nerfing friendly fire for specific classes is never a good route to go, and some asshat will easily find a way to exploit this.

Robert089 · 2011-07-21, 06:57 PM

I've only just rolled a cloaker character and been trying it out, it is pretty difficult to do anything as a cloaker because it seems like everybody flicks darklight on and off all the time. I realise this isn't actually the case but there have been times where people have flicked DL on for no apparent reason or a reaver swoops in from miles above and fires a salvo of rockets on me with pin point accuracy.

When you actually manage to pull off something as a cloaker though it is so much more rewarding, I managed to hack a field turret out from under a guy and proceeded to mow down a hill full of snipers and lancer users with it, I felt like such a bad ass.

Mightymouser · 2011-07-21, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

They have said this is one of their top priorities I hope that they work out some of the many cloaker issues in the game, some involve cheating others just changing settings.

That's scary...

On the other points of the thread:

Leave reveal enemies alone; if there is an annoying cloaker who hacks your base then runs and sits in some isolated part of your base for 5 minutes just to come back and hack again; They deserve to be found with a reveal enemies; without it hunting down those cloakers would be nearly impossible...

Leave friendly fire as it is; If you're running in between your guys and the enemy; you risk getting shot. That's just part of the job; I'm not saying running between an active fight is always a bad idea; I do it pretty often, but it has it's trade offs. Part of the reason it works so well is the enemy is worried about getting shot, not a cloaker; therefore you should have to worry about the same thing. If you get TKed; suck it up and try again, or else try a safer path...

Friendlies being able to see cloakers might be nice, but I can also see how it would be annoying to friendlies. By which I mean, if you are a cloaker surging down a stairwell where there is an active fight; you shouldn't expect your teammates to stop firing for you; and you bouncing around their screen is as likely to get you shot as anything...

Hamma · 2011-07-21, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mightymouser

That's scary...

Why is it scary their top priority is hackers?

Mightymouser · 2011-07-21, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

Why is it scary their top priority is hackers?

It's scary that they're mucking around with "cloaker issues"...

Hamma · 2011-07-21, 10:11 PM

Well people seeing cloakers was also a big issue, especially when people were hacking or messing with Gamma.

Treerat · 2011-07-21, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Chaff

If cloaking existed in real life....would YOU risk standing in front of some HA grunt ? Gut instincst should tell you it is a BAD IDEA. Brutal as it is....it's realistic. The grief system seems to work. I hear what you're saying, but I tend to like it how it is. IMO cloakers only belong up-front near the heavy action for hacking or CE. Too many bullets flying to be near the front lines of heavy action when all you have on is your invisible jammies.

If the action is "light" friendlies should NOT TK you becasue it's easy & they're asshats. In those instances, I would support some sort of suspention/penalty as a possible solution to chronic offenders.

Thing is, I wasn't being "up front". I was the one trying to work his way around to do back-rank (and low/no-kill) actions like finding the enemy AMSs, hacking base doors ahead of Galaxy drops, or just trying to sneak into a quiet corner of the base so I could fed intelligence on enemy defenses inside or throw a few jammers before a big rush. Yet there was almost always some moron (too many times with a backpack and a "big name" outfit tag) who simply refused to look at his radar, for the green tag, or anything else before firing like a lunatic at anything in front of him. And in a real firefight, some of the most important things are to know where you own people are and to check your target before shooting - not only so you don't hit your own side thinking they're the enemy, but so if you miss your shot doesn't go through a wall or over the enemies heads only to kill one of your people. Soldiers who don't do that very quickly end up being discharged, placed in non-combat units, or simply not coming back at all because no one wants to be around them for fear they could be the one in front of his muzzle next time.

At least if cloakers were visible to their own side it cut down on the true accidental incidents, and make the "I'm a reckless moron and/ or a brat who thinks TKing is fun" times more apparent. And with a forgive/ punish system those actual real mistakes would hurt the person less and have impact on the ones who are the bane of organized outfits.

opticalshadow · 2011-07-21, 11:22 PM

yeah the gamma tweakers were the worst in ps1, though iknow that form of cloak was kinda a limitation of the tech, atleast thats what was said.