Systems: Gain access to cert improvement at the beginning of training, instead of the end.

CutterJohn · 2011-07-23, 04:18 AM

The EVE style offline training system is nifty, but it has one flaw..

If it takes weeks to train for something, and you hate it, thats some largely wasted weeks.

I propose, that instead of receiving access to the mod/improvement/variant at the end of the training period, you get it at the beginning. You only maintain access if you continue training that item.

This will let you 'try before you buy'. You can make the decision to keep training for something if you like it. If you do not, you can cancel and begin training something else.

I am undecided on what, or if, there should be a penalty. I see two options.

1. You can pause training, and cert something else, and keep the progress you made, but lose access to the particular upgrade. This would be used by people to bounce around between certs. A time delay would prevent this.

2. You cancel training, and lose the access and progress. This is penalizes the mechanic while still leaving it open as an option if you find, after a day or so of use, you just don't like whatever it was at all.

Also note, this idea is only useful if there are certs that open up something new that take weeks to unlock. If the only things that take that long are % upgrades, then its not terribly useful.

Snow · 2011-07-23, 06:31 AM

Gaining access to certain bonus as soon as you activate them provides very little bonus to having them activated upon completion.

For example:
Skill 1 - 1 hour to learn
Skill 2 - 2 hours
Skill 3 - 4 hours
Skill 4 - 8 hours
Skill 5 - 16 hours

Under your system you would gain access skill 1 after 0 hours, skill 2 after 1 hour, skill 3 after 3 hours, skill 4 after 7 hours and skill 5 after 15 hours.
So you are basically cutting back the learning time of all Certs by only 1 hour.

I understand what you are saying about 'try before you buy' but there would be too many people chopping and changing to suit the current situation, which is why in PS1 there was a limit to how often you could change Certs.

CutterJohn · 2011-07-23, 08:12 AM

The point is not to grant earlier access so that you can get it earlier, but to grant early access so you can see if you actually like it, and if you don't, can abandon the cert for something else you might enjoy more. They said maxing a character will take over a year, so certs like this may exist.

I'm not worried much about being able to respec one cert out of the many, many certs. Not OP in the slightest, and you'll be able to perform the basic role just fine.

My own example:

Unlock AA turret for your tank - 3 weeks.

*spends three weeks unlocking*

*finally installs*

Wtf, this thing sucks.. I wasted 3 weeks on this?

Snow · 2011-07-23, 08:22 AM

I can't find the quote now but I'm certain that they said that there would not be any certs that take more than 24 hours to train.

CutterJohn · 2011-07-23, 10:36 AM

They said you could que your skills for up to 24 hours in advance. In eve, this is used to prevent downtime in training. If its midnight and a skill will be done in 4 hours, you don't want to wait up for it. You can set another skill right then that will automatically start. This doesn't mean the skills don't take longer than 24 hours, just that thats as far ahead as you can cue up new skills.

They did say more than a year and you still won't be finished with your certs in a particular class. So either theres 400+ 24 hour certs per class, or some take days/weeks. I'm inclined to believe the latter.

Snow · 2011-07-23, 11:08 AM

Yeh you're right, I just found that in the Q&A.
I played EVE for a few of years so I know where you're coming from in regards to having skills that can take months to complete but only grant the slightest of benefits.
Often that skill unlocks a new set of equipment available to you that you then find not as useful as you had wished.

However I love the EVE skill system but I know a lot of people hate it. If PS2 is going to have a similar system I think it should be on the same lines.

Maybe I'm patient enough to wait and see than worry if what I'm learning is what I wanted.

Soothsayer · 2011-07-23, 03:31 PM

Some sort of try before you buy would be cool.

Maybe a second pool you can train into at a reduced rate which gives you skillpoints that can be untrained and respent over time. Kind of like when CCP ditched learning skills and gave everybody a refund on the skillpoints they'd put into learning. But with these ones you could swap them out kind of like you can swap certs in PS.

Once you're there they could give a boost to your training rate if you decide to keep the skill...

I say this because Higby has stated in no unclear terms that if you want to REALLY specialize in a vehicle you could be training for over a year.

There are over a dozen vehicles... however many infantry types and classes... Won't be able to skill up everything by the time the game is a footnote in a history textbook on 21st century gaming.

**Malorn** · 2011-07-25, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Snow

I can't find the quote now but I'm certain that they said that there would not be any certs that take more than 24 hours to train.

I recall this as well.

I think all of us that played Eve are a little wary of ridiculous training times. That said, if the above is true I don't think it's that big of a deal.

Vancha · 2011-07-27, 04:06 AM

With the knowledge that a single vehicle can take more than a year to train into, we're looking at at least 365 certs for a vehicle, then...

I could see the benefit to "accessing" a skill 50-75% through learning it and then being able to drop it before you completely obtain it, but as has been said it depends on the training time of skills.