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2011-07-25, 08:26 AM | [Ignore Me] #16 | ||
First Sergeant
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I really hope they'll leave the choice of armor in the game. So you can basically choose from a number of armors for each class. I'd guess HA would be rexo only, but for most others you could definitely choose between rexo and agile ^^
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2011-07-25, 08:31 AM | [Ignore Me] #17 | ||
Sergeant
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The only real way to keep people from mastering it all i think is to make it so there is so much to learn and it take so long to learn that its impossible. Much like EVE just to be a proficient miner it takes probably six months time to learn all those skills and then there is still many more mining skills to learn after that. I think SOE took a close look at how EVE did their skill learning set up, we should be ok.
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2011-07-25, 08:48 AM | [Ignore Me] #18 | |||
First Sergeant
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2011-07-25, 09:00 AM | [Ignore Me] #19 | |||
Sergeant
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I want it to be Planetside:Next not Planetside HD |
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2011-07-25, 09:03 AM | [Ignore Me] #20 | ||
The cert system was done rather well when we had the possibility to have fewer certs. The strength of the cert system is that while you could do more, you couldn't do everything at the same time. For example, you could be an HA and a AV trooper, but you wouldn't be able to drive most vehicles, and if you wanted to hack and be a medic, you would have to decrease the amount of ammo you could have by quite a bit. There was a balance there. But that is not all. You couldn't just say "Incoming max units!" and then set up your max killer setup unless you already had that cert.
From what they have said about the class system, you can be a Medic, or an AV guy or an HA guy or a driver. Just not all at the same time, and not as well as your main certs. So, while the driver who sets up an HA loadout may not be as good as the guy who specializes in AV, he is still an HA guy. Essentially you have traded the concept that a guy could have Engi/HA/AV/Medic at the same time as long as he has the Level (though not as effective at it) with a guy who can change into any class without reguardless of level (though not as effective at it.) It seems strange to me. You get rid of the options of having some different abilities as long as you are high enough level and certs, and replace it with having all different abilities from level one just not at the same time. See what I am getting at here? Doesn't look good. Of course, that is based upon an assumption. What he keeps talking about is how certs make one more effective at a class. NOT certs gaining more classes.
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Life sucks, Press on. Moderation in all things, including Moderation. |
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2011-07-25, 11:31 AM | [Ignore Me] #21 | ||
Lieutenant Colonel
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That's the impression I get as well; its like having everything certed in PS, but you can become better at certain things by focusing on that role and spending your points/resources/time to specialise in it.
I also get the impression that many certs will have to be unlocked as you get more BR, so for example at BR5 you could get access to support certs, BR10 MAX, Infil and Agile armour, etc |
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2011-07-25, 11:37 AM | [Ignore Me] #22 | |||||
Colonel
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From how they describe it, You'll be 75% as effective day one at a role in PS2. Maybe missing some sidegrade options that increase your versatility or weapon choices, but you can do the job.
"You drive lots of vehicles, so we're going to make you suck when you step out of them" "You like infantry, so you're going to be farmed by vehicles outside" PS balance was making you dominate in one area so you could suck in another. It twisted the certs into a rock paper scissors game, where you got to 'win' only part of the time, due to greatly superior equipment options, and put you at a disadvantage the rest of the time. Thats silly. Its bad balance. Every armor, every vehicle, every weapon should have a role. No single combination should dominate in every situation to the point where thats what everyone picks. There should be a reason to bring MA to a base fight over HA. A reason to bring AV out into the field over a tank. TF2 has 9 different classes. Do teams always pick just one class? Is there one or two classes that are clearly the best in 95% of the situations? Nope. Everything has a job, and people pick all the classes. Some more than others, sure, and it definitely depends on the environment, but there is always a healthy representation due to usefulness and personal preference. If classes are balanced, class representation will be balanced. It won't matter if you can switch, because everyone else is switching too. To different stuff, all the time. Your worry that people can switch is a direct result of PSs lack of balance. You assume they will switch to the rexo/av/ha/med/eng class, or the AI max class, because those were clearly dominant in fights indoors, because in PS1, they are totally imbalanced vs any other infantry choice. Last edited by CutterJohn; 2011-07-25 at 12:07 PM. |
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2011-07-25, 12:11 PM | [Ignore Me] #23 | ||
Lieutenant General
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I remember Higby saying jump jets will only be available to a lightly armored class.
But to the OP, I think we can still be close to a jack of all trades. Like in one class you can pick up a ground vech, air, a specialized weapon tree, some support skills. But you won't be able to advance deep into every tree? I'm fine with regular infantry being able to get med engi, but those advanced down those support trees will heal/repair much faster, adv med, stuff like that. |
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2011-07-25, 12:12 PM | [Ignore Me] #24 | ||||
Lieutenant General
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Last edited by Bags; 2011-07-25 at 12:13 PM. |
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2011-07-25, 01:48 PM | [Ignore Me] #26 | ||
Lieutenant Colonel
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I'm hoping that you can't have it; with it you are too versatile and independent which is what the devs seem to be putting in the class system to restrict.
The point of this thread is that I am worried about PS2 being too restrictive, making you pick only one of those 4 roles in any life. I want a mid point; one where you can have a support tool (eg medic or engy), but also a particular weapon (eg HA or AV), while having a certain armour (eg Agile or Rexo). |
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2011-07-25, 01:54 PM | [Ignore Me] #28 | ||
Contributor PlanetSide 2
Game Designer |
I'm a bit torn myself. I like the idea and I see where they can go with it, but the free-form part of PS1 was a significant appeal.
It might end up being sort of like BFBC2 where you have to choose various accessories from a list. It coudl be things like REK, Medical, bank, CUD, etc are all on a shared list of options. So you have options on which one you want, but you have to pick one. There's different ways they can go to preserve some of that free choice. Just like there may be multiple classes that can drive a buggy, or use MA. I think if they hit the common styles of play (grunt medic, infil, heavy grunt, tank driver, pilot, etc) while putting in some reasonable restrictions it could turn out just fine. The main problem with the PS1 cert system is that it didnt' scale and trended towards do-everything soldiers. The PS2 cert system as they describe it will scale very well, and they can always add in new classes at any time with different cert combinations from the existing cert tree. So I see a lot of flexibility where they could make the vast majority of players happy and give us some flexibility in decisions with the new system. So I'm going to hold back the fears for now and wait til we see what it is like in beta. |
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2011-07-25, 03:27 PM | [Ignore Me] #29 | |||||
This isn't TF2, so that is a bad example. Classes in TF2 would not work well in a MMOFPS because in PS2 the types of battles will be more varied. Not the same essentially close range grudge fights that TF2 has.
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Life sucks, Press on. Moderation in all things, including Moderation. |
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2011-07-25, 03:32 PM | [Ignore Me] #30 | |||
Contributor PlanetSide 2
Game Designer |
I don't think the old system is the correct solution, it would need some modification but the core ideas are sound. Of course at this point they've probably invested so much into the new design that completely revamping it may not be practical. It was one of the two big hightlights of the fanfaire...the new cert system & the resource/territory control changes. Going back on that would take a lot of convincing and would require some fundamental flaws that cannot be resolved by tweaking that system. I think that is quite unlikely. The new system is very likely going to stay, so the question is the nuances of it as opposed to the fundamentals. Last edited by Malorn; 2011-07-25 at 03:33 PM. |
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