The Issue of the 10%-20% Power Differentiation

[Malorn]

Originally Posted by FastAndFree

The character selection screen slowed down the pace of the game too much

It had no effect on pacing. The only thing it slowed down was time to login and start playing. That isn't pacing.

Such things can be easily shortcut without removing the character selection screen. They also did shortcut it in PS so you didn't always need to see it.

That said I like the idea of a single character. If they do any sort of server merges however they will end up with multiples.

[Hamma]

If I recall correctly you will be restricted to one empire per server there were no notes about chars per server.

[Chaff]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

It's actually specialization. Someone could be specialized 20% into one thing and another person could specialize 20% into something totally different. Meaning two veterans would not necessarily be on equal footing. It would depend on what they specialized in.

In fact that's why I'd prefer more than 20%. I already did the math Higby showed for a few cases and came to the same conclusion that 20% isn't really anything for specialization. My current fear is that specialization doesn't mean anything other than visual upgrades.

Agree

I has to MEAN someting - for it to MEAN something.

[EASyEightyEight]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Stuff

Planetside would only be the counter-example if it weren't on life support.

Yeah, I'm speaking as though for the silent majority, just like you are, on wanting what I personally want in game. You caught me being a hypocrit. Congrats. What you've seemed to miss is that they're not speaking like they're planning to add "hundreds maybe thousands" of skills to game, but that they are adding a number of skills that could number that high. They're further along than what the teaser would lead us to believe. We're looking at beta's soon even. A little late to be telling them to scrap the whole skill system.

The game will not survive on just shooting people and taking land. Accept that PS2 is NOT PS1. Personal measurable progression is the driving force behind gaming anymore, even if it shouldn't be. Territory comes and goes, but my MA skill rank being 4 is forever until I decide to untrain it.

[Chaff]

Originally Posted by Lunarchild

Unfortunately monkeys have no clue what an "enemy" is and just fires even if there's nothing to shoot at. Heck, it doesn't know the word aim and just randomly shoots around wasting your ammo ^_^

My monkey ("BINGO") will know who the EVIL empires are - afterall - it's going to be a TRAINED monkey - maybe I have to spend 3 or 4 hours in VR with my simian sidekick - letting it kill bad guys until it "gets it" ...... then it can be my backup gunner.

[Malorn]

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

Yeah, I'm speaking as though for the silent majority, just like you are, on wanting what I personally want in game. You caught me being a hypocrit. Congrats. What you've seemed to miss is that they're not speaking like they're planning to add "hundreds maybe thousands" of skills to game, but that they are adding a number of skills that could number that high. They're further along than what the teaser would lead us to believe. We're looking at beta's soon even. A little late to be telling them to scrap the whole skill system.

Who's saying to scrap the whole skill system? Just don't include power in it. Implants upgrade options, vehicle qualifications, equipment qualifications...all still valid. The mechanics of the skill system don't need to change at all. We're only talking values here.

The game will not survive on just shooting people and taking land. Accept that PS2 is NOT PS1. Personal measurable progression is the driving force behind gaming anymore, even if it shouldn't be. Territory comes and goes, but my MA skill rank being 4 is forever until I decide to untrain it.

So say you - what evidence do you have to back up your claim? I have examples of real games to back up mine. Want another? Counter-strike. Still highly popular on the top 20 on steam. Another? Team Fortress 2. No progression, still being played and highly popular.

[kaffis]

Originally Posted by Malorn

The reason we stopped playing is typically because the game got stale

Progression is a way to inject variety and freshness. It's hard for the chance to use an ability or gizmo you just earned to get stale.

[Malorn]

Originally Posted by kaffis

Progression is a way to inject variety and freshness. It's hard for the chance to use an ability or gizmo you just earned to get stale.

I doesn't add variety - it adds grind. Its something you need to do or you don't stay competitive.

[kaffis]

Originally Posted by Malorn

I doesn't add variety - it adds grind. Its something you need to do or you don't stay competitive.

I'll concede this. However, with time-based cert trees, the thing you need to "do" is log in periodically to designate what you want to train in.

I don't have a problem with that, especially if they offer mobile apps that allow you to interface with this. If "staying competitive" means I need to take 2 minutes out of my day while I'm waiting in line at the cafeteria to pull out my phone and think about the game, more power to 'em.

I'd also support, for the record, extending the amount of time you can queue up skills to train, too. I think anything up to 120 hours (5 days) would be more than adequate to promote the intent of requiring periodic monitoring (keeping the game fresh in your mind, enticing you to play it and getting you excited about it) without becoming too much of a chore or busy-work.

[Baneblade]

VVZ - I'm 20% better than you!

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

VVZ - I'm 20% better than you!

That's kind of vague. 20% better at what? Aiming? 20% more armor? It would be more important to say stuff like "I'm 20% better at air to air combat" in which case I'd be like "that makes you better than others at killing my liberator. Okay". I'd respond "my liberator is 20% better than normal liberators at killing tanks"

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by Malorn

I doesn't add variety - it adds grind. Its something you need to do or you don't stay competitive.

You can absolutely have power progression while still keeping things competitive for everyone. Simply because this is a shooter. It's not an RPG, or space spreadsheet sim. It's a shooter. It doesn't take very much imagination at all to see how it will work.

And on top of that, I think it's something that PS1 was lacking. If I've been playing for 6 months, I want to earn the right to be able to reload a little faster. Will something like that destroy the competition? Of course not.

Of all the complaints about COD, you don't hear people bitching about "Oh you unlocked extended mags, that's no fair, I quit" Now, if they do something stupid and give your bullets twice as much damage, yeah, that obviously would create a huge rift between new and veteran players, but thats not happening now, or 10 years from now.

Progression in mmo's is not new. Power progression in an fps is not new. You always have to keep in mind Planetside 2 is a shooter, not an rpg.

[Malorn]

Power progression that requires choices, as in you must choose which among a set of bonuses is active, is not bad and can work just fine.

Power progression that is always-on and based on time is just dumb and pointless.

[Bags]

I don't like any increase of power. I don't deserve to reload faster simply because I've been paying longer.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Power progression that requires choices, as in you must choose which among a set of bonuses is active, is not bad and can work just fine.

Power progression that is always-on and based on time is just dumb and pointless.

I don't see how that is different than how they describe skill progression? You want to drive tanks, you put your skill points into that while somebody else who likes reavers will put their skill points in that. Now, my Reaver skills are always on, but they only matter when I'm actually in a Reaver.

From what I've heard, it doesn't sound like they are going to give us a million skill points in the first couple weeks so we can max out everything. We are going to have to make decisions on where to put our limited skill points in a vast skill system. You want to be a jack of all trades? Well you can spread the skill points around, but you can't go very deep. If you want to specialize in something, you can go deep, but be gimped in other aspects of the game.

Even though the skills are always on, you still have to make choices.