Dual-Wielding - Page 7

CutterJohn · 2011-08-19, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by InternetZombie

Ok serriously I hate how anyone is going to bring the "it's not realistic" BS arguement to this, shall we go count the number of unrealistic things in Planetside?

I don't like it. Is that a BS argument?

The reason I don't like it is because its unrealistic and a bad idea, and I'm tired of seeing it in games and in hollywood. The TR max gets a pass because its powered armor and undoubtedly has a lot of servos and software to control it.

By the way, I find it interesting you lambast people using realism as an argument against it, then proceed to support the exact downsides such a practice would realistically have. Why is it ok for you to argue realism but not me?

Lastly, since you brought it up, obviously sci fi can make anything possible. I demand robot unicorns as player mounts. Sci fi!

If your duel wielding you should have horrible accuracy and a horrible reload time, but twice the firepower. Having a single AMP style pistol does not fill the same gameplay niche. Sure you fire fast but thats not the point, the point is to get the most damage done in the fastest time possible, if I can unload 30 rounds in a second great, but 60 is still twice the damage.

The gameplay niche you seem to be wanting is 'Maximum possible dps from a pistol weapon'. You're saying a pistol in the style of the AMP is incapable of this? Devs magically can't change the damage and rof values in the weapon configuration file?

Whatever two weapons can do, the devs can invent a single weapon that does the exact same thing. Making the argument one of style, not mechanics. Meaning it is completely a matter of personal taste.

exLupo · 2011-08-20, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by InternetZombie

Ok serriously I hate how anyone is going to bring the "it's not realistic" BS arguement to this, shall we go count the number of unrealistic things in Planetside?

Contextual realism: Design keeping true to a recognizable reality constant. This breaks down into three general categories.

Surrealism: Rez - Has no tie to normal human reality.
Non-simulation realism: PlanetSide - Has coherent ties to normal human reality with speculative elements.
Simulation realism: ARMA - Attempts to, as close as reasonable, simulate normal human reality.

Realism does not automatically equal a simulation. It's perfectly reasonable to ask the developers to adhere to what is viewed as reasonable when compared to existing PlanetSide lore. What is acceptable is different to different people (or there would be no point in this thread at all) but everyone is requesting some level of realism as long as they want things like guns which are, themselves, a reflection of meatspace if even only in concept.

Originally Posted by InternetZombie

Duel wielding should be something that only makes sence at point blank range, otherwise your just wasting your time and ammo. If someone really wants to run at me from 50 meters away with duel pistols then I say let em, easy kill.

This is an example of non-simulation realism. You're seeing how firing two pistols would operate in real life and applying it to your suggested Dual Wield design.

Crator · 2011-08-20, 10:00 AM

It actually would be more unrealistic if they didn't allow you to dual-wield.

CutterJohn · 2011-08-20, 10:26 AM

Sure, but it'd also be unrealistic if it was more useful than anything in any way. Which then makes it wasted dev time.

Crator · 2011-08-20, 10:30 AM

I do not disagree with that statement CutterJohn. In fact I support it in an earlier post I made in this thread.

Sirisian · 2011-09-02, 02:24 AM

From IRC:

<CutterJohn>tbh, healing with a med app offhand while you hold a pistol is pretty acceptible

He was talking about either firing with one hand or healing with one hand and not doing both at once.

To bring this thread from the dead for fun how do you feel about dual wielding med applicators? That is putting both of them in pistol holsters to heal two people at a time like a hero?

Personally being a medic and going through the holster cycle of putting away a weapon to heal someone is risky. Does it need to be that way or can a medic perform their duties while still having a pistol out.

That is if holster 1 is a pistol and holster 2 is a med app they could choose which hand to holster an item by holding left or right then pressing the holster key and the player will grab that. So if you have a person on your left that you want to heal you could hold the right mouse then hit the med applicator holster to put it in the right hand of the player. They'd reach either down or over. Then pressing another holster button would put that item in the off-hand. Pressing a holster button for a weapon equipped holsters it. Simple and yet horribly complicated. Unless you like that level of skill.

This opens up the ability to add an ancient ranged healing device also as an off-hand device on the user's hand while in battle.

Mezorin · 2011-09-03, 04:13 AM

This is a tough call, as to me PlanetSide sort of straddles that "realism" line between it being all super serious FPS, and being more fast paced Hollywood gameplay. But every game I have seen them implemented (except maybe N64 Golden Eye or Max Payne), dual weilded guns are usually useless.

As bad assed as dual wield hand guns or AMPs are concerned, they are usually very spammy weapons that are more about sheer lead volume than any real aimming skill. They also are not THAT great even in the COD series because the uncontrollable cone of fire on the stupid guns means you would have been better off with a rapid fire/extended mag SMG anyways.

But maybe letting dual weild be certible a 'light assault' ability would add some spice to the jet pack class. They could choose between insane close quarter DPS via dualie AMPs or scattermags, or they could use a larger SMG that has better accuracy/DPS at medium range. Provided dual wielding has benefits/cost that are appropriate for good game/class design, I see no problem with it.

MorphyNOR · 2011-09-06, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Dual wield was useful for a couple hundred years, when pistols took forever to reload and had very limited shots.

Dual-wielding is - or has ever been considered usefull. How does using two hands compensate for a slow reload exactly? If you have a singleshot gun and use one hand you would be lucky to hit anything, if you carry two you are more likely to pull out one - shot - then pull out the other and shot it.

Try shooting with your weak hand some time

Having said that tho, I'd love to see the option to customize my character to be left-handed. Not that I am myself left-handed. But I know a lot of people who are, and they would love this.

Lokster · 2011-09-06, 03:25 AM

I vote no to the dual-wielding idea. It's just not a needed feature imo.

atone · 2011-09-18, 08:46 PM

add it. I don't see why not. So what its not "planetsidy" enough for most vets. they are adding bunches of stuff that wasn't in planetside. the realism argument is neither here nor there (its scifi) Not effective/too effective, meh, that's all balance issues. what i do think is it will add is some flash that a lot fps gamers would and do enjoy thus expanding the base of players. so why not? hate it? don't use it and ridicule those that do.

**Malorn** · 2011-09-18, 09:14 PM

Just because John Woo made it look cool doesn't mean its practical. Its dumb, nobody does this IRL for a reason, it just looks good when Chow Yun Fat does it.

Sirisian · 2011-09-18, 09:45 PM

Since someone bumped this. Have you seen the Skyrim video where each hand is independent? That's ideally how it should be set up. Allows much more flexibility in how people equip and use items.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imH4Ncoe9Gs#t=1m27s

Actually watching that part again reminded me of my fantasy implants, but it also goes into the idea of dual wielding medic/engineer items in your hands. Or holding a pistol while you have a deployable in your hand. Also opens up the ability to say hold a grenade in your off hand while holding a weapon. Lots of possibilities.

Ideally there would be a huge list of restrictions on what can be used with what and the modifiers for using combinations of items.

atone · 2011-09-18, 10:10 PM

dual w/ deploys?...
depends on how they are doing equip switches. if its fast enough there's not much difference. In most cases deploying speed isn't essential.

Tycho · 2011-09-18, 10:45 PM

The only thing i would be in favor of duel wielding is knives. I agree with MorphyNOR in that making your character left handed would be a cool feature.

Ive played with duel wield pistols in different games and had fun with them. However, I dont believe it will make a positive addition to the Planetside gameplay. I would like to see some new pistols in the game though.

nomotog · 2011-09-18, 10:57 PM

I searched this thread and didn't see anyone mention the idea of wielding a knife and a pistol. You could have both your weapons out at a time, but the trade off is no iron sight and maybe a clip less of pistol ammo.