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2011-09-27, 08:12 PM | [Ignore Me] #31 | ||||
Contributor Major
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I will admit, though, I'm skeptical, as well, as to whether that's the entirety of the intent. After all, they've gone out of their way to declare that they're providing lots of support roles for people who aren't good at standard FPS skills. One would think, then, that essentially allowing the "driver pulls the vehicle" to create a "driver" support role, and they'd be find with that. |
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2011-09-27, 08:23 PM | [Ignore Me] #33 | |||
Contributor PlanetSide 2
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Even if none of those exist, you'd only need minimal secondary gunners. 4 tanks, only 1 has a gunner with an AA config. 5 people, 4 tanks. Lots of main gun firepower. Lots of tank hit points to destroy before they're gone. Way better than running 2 tanks. |
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2011-09-27, 10:22 PM | [Ignore Me] #34 | |||
Brigadier General
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2011-09-27, 10:30 PM | [Ignore Me] #35 | |||
Colonel
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This is the same reason you don't see a mossy with a driver and a guy controlling the guns. It's just not as fun as having control of the weapons. People try to latch onto these points and go "oh but the fighters are solo players and won't work together". No you just have groups of them destroying the enemy. That is working together. You don't need one guy driving and another firing the bullets to get things done.
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[Thoughts and Ideas on the Direction of Planetside 2] Last edited by Sirisian; 2011-09-27 at 10:32 PM. |
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2011-09-27, 11:04 PM | [Ignore Me] #36 | |||
Colonel
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2011-09-27, 11:04 PM | [Ignore Me] #37 | |||
First Lieutenant
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And because it is so solo focused it will have to have much weaker armor compared to what a real tank should have. It will be much more like bf where you die rather fast even in a tank. And in a game with a zillion people thats awful design. We need a vehicle that can take the hits, its slow and cumbersome as a downside and needs its 3 people but has high armor and can take a beating to help push forward. The teamwork focus is so much more fun, this is not a random deathmatch game, its an MMO. We will have Outfits (guilds) and make many friends all of which who can gun for us as we drive. It gives the feel of teamwork and an actual operation goin with reality in drivers not gunning. It improves the social aspect. And prevents the "buff" feel that solo vehicles get, and the more solo mindset you get. I dont really feel like part of my squad when we are all runnin around in our own lightnings. It just doesn feel as epic at all.
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Waiting for the return of the superior, real PS style teamwork oriented vehicles with drivers not gunning, and in fixed vehicle slots so we can once again have real, epic, vehicle battles where the tanks actually move in combat rather than a silly 1700's era line up and shoot. |
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2011-09-27, 11:13 PM | [Ignore Me] #38 | |||
First Lieutenant
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If we have a bunch of vehicles, skills, weapons, systems, etc all designed for this solo way, then it becomes too difficult and time consuming to change it all at that point and so we get stuck with it. Even the very limited info we know already requires a complete redo of the magrider. (i vote shrink it and make it the ES variant of the lightning!!!) But yeah, most other things can be ironed out in beta, just gotta catch the stuff that really cant before it gets developed too far into the core of the game.
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Waiting for the return of the superior, real PS style teamwork oriented vehicles with drivers not gunning, and in fixed vehicle slots so we can once again have real, epic, vehicle battles where the tanks actually move in combat rather than a silly 1700's era line up and shoot. |
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2011-09-27, 11:29 PM | [Ignore Me] #39 | ||||
Colonel
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To fully understand this imagine 4 solo tanks go against each other. 4 prowlers vs 4 vanguards. You're imagining a necessity that they'd die in a few hits. It doesn't need to be that way. They could have a ton of health and take 10+ direct hits to kill each other. Tanks that focus their fire together using teamwork would destroy a single of the enemy tank in 3 turns. (4 * 3 = 12 rounds). This would destroy the enemy tanks much faster than randomly shooting which would damage the tanks evenly basically however with focused fire the enemy would be down a tank and lose much faster at that point. So a long TTK is really important to gameplay and give players many choices when they're being attacked. Okay fun. If you look at this program you can see the math. (This shows 5 tanks firing randomly at the enemy will beat 4 using focused fire if they have 10 health). Click clone then change the Health and team sizes and run it to see the outcome at the bottom. It gives you a hit for hit battle report assuming the tanks are trading rounds and firing all at the same time.
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[Thoughts and Ideas on the Direction of Planetside 2] Last edited by Sirisian; 2011-09-28 at 12:28 AM. |
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2011-09-28, 01:58 AM | [Ignore Me] #41 | |||
Brigadier General
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I'm not quite sure how many times the devs need to say PS2 is a team based shooter. I mean some people around here are acting as if they took the 2nd seat out of the tanks altogether. Personally, I think people just need to deal with the reality that people play shooters to shoot. When is the Gran Turismo MMO coming out again? |
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2011-09-28, 03:41 AM | [Ignore Me] #42 | ||||
Sergeant Major
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If it was possible, balancing it would be hell, since all the properties of the main gun would have to change the second it got released to the gunner. One way for this to work would be to give driver operated main gun 50% slower reload rate than the released gun has. This option I could accept, but only if we have it from the getgo and not as a cert along the way.
50% want PS 1 style The rest is the "BFR Style", "other" group. The people who want "releaseable main gun for gunner" belong to this group too. So what you are saying that 50% of the people's opinion "means jack squat". 50% is a huge number in any vote, even greater if you consider that your side only has 12.50%. At any rate, why does someone who clearly wants to play as a reaver pilot most of the time, want to tell those who want to be dedicated tank drivers to get in line? Really while your opinion should be noted, it should not be of much weight here. |
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2011-09-28, 04:40 AM | [Ignore Me] #43 | |||||
Lieutenant Colonel
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With a team of people in 1-man tanks and assuming that you cannot come back to the battle right away with a new tank, once you're taken out, you're out. Out of the heat, out of the action, etc... You're left alone respawning at the base to get a new vehicle, thinking how you could have played better in the previous round while reflexively proceeding to get back to the battle. I do not know if I am the only one who experienced this feeling of being left out of the team once in a while but it can suck... Now in a crew-vehicle, you never miss the climax of the battle ! How ? Well, the climax is either when you defeat your target or when your whole crew gets blown up. In PS1, while dying as infantry was expandable and just as fast to respawn. In the contrary, losing your tank was like taking a hit because the vehicles were slow and you had to come back all the way. On the other hand, the tanks were durable if you took care of them. In any case, my point is that having fun with your crew through both the best and hard times was the whole point of tank play. In essence, either 1-man tanks or crew-tanks are viable in a game function-wise. However, the feeling is much different. Just like requiring a secondary gunner to function vs. being already effective and seeing the secondary gunner as a bonus. The feeling/immersion is much different. Let's wait for beta and see how things will be.
PS1: 2 seats, driver, MAIN-gunner PS2: 2 seats, driver/MAIN-gunner, secondary The people who need to realize that people play shooters to shoot also realize that between PS1 and PS2, there was a big difference in design philosophy. Can you realize that some people enjoyed some PS1 aspects more than you did ? Driving for great gunners (along with footzerging on bases) is what made me come back to PS1 repeatedly (and willing to shell out 15$/m). I am not saying that this preference is superior to other preferences (like killwhoring) or that the devs must switch back to PS1 system because 15 players like me enjoyed driving tank with BFGs. The devs will (and should) do what it takes to make their game successful. By voicing their concern, the 50% cult-followers are essentially trying to alert and warn the devs that something out there offers some diversity (driving) to the core gameplay of a FPS (shooting) and that it adds a lot of value to some players. Now if the devs want to make a MMOFPS which offers 100% of the same thing to air & land & infantry (i.e. killwhoring with different guns in different ways but always killwhoring), then it's their call. In PS1, I never felt like a lame driver. I felt like the guy that multiplied the potential of big-fucking-guns on rails, baby ! And I was always thankful to my gunners because they (almost) never failed to seal the deal. And we had FUN ! So yah... PS2, different game, different people. Not necessarily bad, just different preferences. btw, I also find it unecessary to be so condescending towards people who enjoyed PS1 vehicle style and defend it: it's a matter of taste. To conclude, I'll stay vocal where I feel it's necessary (i.e. to defend what I enjoyed the most in PS1 because I want PS2 to be as enjoyable) and no, I do not enjoy racing games like Gran Turismo (is it truly possible to make a MMO out of that ? ). PS2 devs will do what they deem best for their success. It does not mean it will be the right formula for everyone either. Time and beta will tell ! Last edited by sylphaen; 2011-09-28 at 04:43 AM. |
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2011-09-28, 05:50 AM | [Ignore Me] #44 | ||
As one of the best tank drivers ever to play PS, I can say with certainty that the only thing a tank driver needs for a gun, is a 20mm 60 deg forward MG. Not very good at killing air, but useful against infantry and light vehicles.
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2011-09-28, 07:07 AM | [Ignore Me] #45 | |||
About a game that we hope thousands will play, probably many of whom never played or even heard about Planetside 1 So yes, I would say that the result of the poll is only indicative of a fraction of active PSU users' preferences, who are apparently a drop in the ocean. Last edited by FastAndFree; 2011-09-28 at 07:09 AM. |
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