The denied reproductive rights of males.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by MrVicchio

A woman has the right to abort a child she does not want, but a man is stuck paying the bill for a child he does not want.

I.E. Consider the following real life scenarios.

Bill and Linda engage in consensual intercourse that results in a pregnancy. There are only a few real outcomes.

They both wish to have the child, and find a way to make this happen either through living together, marriage or another situation that works for both.

Linda wants the child Bill does not. Linda gives birth, Bill spends 18-24 years paying child support for a child he never wanted.

Bill Wants the child, Linda does not. Linda aborts. Bill loses a child

Linda does not want the child but gives the child up to Bill. Linda pays Child support (possible).

Linda cannot bring herself to abort, but neither want the child, it is given away for adoption.

In all of the above situations, after the intercourse, the ball is in HER court as to what happens for both of them, and the unborn.

Men should have the right to "abort" their rights and responsibilities as fathers. After all, fairs fair, and while it's not "their body" it is a major part of their reproductive rights.



I expect every pro-abortion person should support equality under the law (see the 14th Amendment for this.) and back giving fathers the right to abort as well.

The state doesn't give a shit about the man OR the woman once the baby is born. Its interest lies with the welfare of the child. Does it suck if you knock a girl up with an unwanted baby? Yep. Thats the risk you take when you have sex with a woman.

You can argue that the courts are a bit too free with the mans money, and far too hesitant to award the man custody. But arguing that the man should be able to abandon his offspring is folly. If you can't afford a kid, don't put your penis into vagina. If you do its your own fault. You knew the risks.

[MrVicchio]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

The state doesn't give a shit about the man OR the woman once the baby is born. Its interest lies with the welfare of the child. Does it suck if you knock a girl up with an unwanted baby? Yep. Thats the risk you take when you have sex with a woman.

You can argue that the courts are a bit too free with the mans money, and far too hesitant to award the man custody. But arguing that the man should be able to abandon his offspring is folly. If you can't afford a kid, don't put your penis into vagina. If you do its your own fault. You knew the risks.

But it's A-OK for the woman, who doesn't want a kid, to go ahead and kill it, but to give the man the same legal right to wash his hands of the event, is folly?

/Boggle

Why does she get a "get out of baby free" card? Why doesn't she get told "Don't spread'em honey"? Don't say it's "her body", that's a cop out.

[Crator]

I've known a few young lady's who accidentally got pregnant at a young age and decided to get abortions. They are pretty messed up in the mind about the event too, even years after the abortion. I have no doubt it weighs heavily on someone's mind, throughout their entire life, that they killed another human being that could have been.

[Traak]

I wonder what the statistics are for post-abortion suicides?

[Vecha]

Originally Posted by Traak

I wonder what the statistics are for post-abortion suicides?

http://afterabortion.org/2005/womens...ion-new-study/

Seems to be pretty high.

http://www.factcheck.org/society/abo...stortions.html


However...Woman suicides overall are lower since the Roe V. Wade went into effect.

[Traak]

Male suicide rate has also decreased. I don't think suicide rate in the general population is an indicator of anything regarding Roe vs: Wade.

Women, especially in the West, want to have the moral and responsibility level of a prostitute, and all the benefits that accrue from being a faithful housewife.

Only in the West are sluts exalted, by the court system, to the level of faithful and committed life partner.

However, again, the simple cure is to avoid sex.

If guys and gals only realized how conniving and irresponsible their "partner" was (partner, in this case, meaning current copulation receptacle/provider) they would be a lot more guarded.

I have seen this too often. Girl decides she's gonna nail down the playboy, so *poof* she's pregnant! I've seen it happen to friends.

Assault Pregnancy. Don't let it happen to you!

[Quovatis]

Originally Posted by Traak

However, again, the simple cure is to avoid sex.

A better solution is education and contraceptives. But no no no, the pope says that using condoms is worse than AIDS.

And BTW- divorce rates among atheists are lower than theists.

[Vecha]

Originally Posted by Traak

Male suicide rate has also decreased. I don't think suicide rate in the general population is an indicator of anything regarding Roe vs: Wade.

Women, especially in the West, want to have the moral and responsibility level of a prostitute, and all the benefits that accrue from being a faithful housewife.

Only in the West are sluts exalted, by the court system, to the level of faithful and committed life partner.

However, again, the simple cure is to avoid sex.

If guys and gals only realized how conniving and irresponsible their "partner" was (partner, in this case, meaning current copulation receptacle/provider) they would be a lot more guarded.

I have seen this too often. Girl decides she's gonna nail down the playboy, so *poof* she's pregnant! I've seen it happen to friends.

Assault Pregnancy. Don't let it happen to you!

And...what about Rape/Incest issues?

SOL?

[Malorn]

Meh.

[BUGGER]

Originally Posted by MrVicchio

A woman has the right to abort a child she does not want, but a man is stuck paying the bill for a child he does not want.

I.E. Consider the following real life scenarios.

Bill and Linda engage in consensual intercourse that results in a pregnancy. There are only a few real outcomes.

They both wish to have the child, and find a way to make this happen either through living together, marriage or another situation that works for both.

Linda wants the child Bill does not. Linda gives birth, Bill spends 18-24 years paying child support for a child he never wanted.

Bill Wants the child, Linda does not. Linda aborts. Bill loses a child

Linda does not want the child but gives the child up to Bill. Linda pays Child support (possible).

Linda cannot bring herself to abort, but neither want the child, it is given away for adoption.

In all of the above situations, after the intercourse, the ball is in HER court as to what happens for both of them, and the unborn.

Men should have the right to "abort" their rights and responsibilities as fathers. After all, fairs fair, and while it's not "their body" it is a major part of their reproductive rights.



I expect every pro-abortion person should support equality under the law (see the 14th Amendment for this.) and back giving fathers the right to abort as well.

Agreed if this applies to single parents, which sounds like it is. If the couple is married by law, shit out of luck. Your having kids...or killing them, whatever suits your fancy.

There would have to be a system where the man/woman declares they would be the "legal parent" around the time of the pregnancy.....just so you don't have any bailouts 8 months in.




And about the bacon theory. It is the man who brings in the bacon, but its the woman who CREATES it.....they have unlimited power.

[Kran De Loy]

Originally Posted by Hamma

Yea social issues have no place in politics.

I'd say local politics can have it, but federal sticking their fingers into the cake is just wrong.

Originally Posted by Crator

I've known a few young lady's who accidentally got pregnant at a young age and decided to get abortions. They are pretty messed up in the mind about the event too, even years after the abortion. I have no doubt it weighs heavily on someone's mind, throughout their entire life, that they killed another human being that could have been.

People that don't think far enough ahead about the consequences of getting laid are also probably to be much less likely capable of coping with their own actions let alone accepting responsibility for them.


--Deleted a bit piece of me just ranting.--

[Vash02]

Originally Posted by Traak

Women, especially in the West, want to have the moral and responsibility level of a prostitute, and all the benefits that accrue from being a faithful housewife.

Only in the West are sluts exalted, by the court system, to the level of faithful and committed life partner.

Your forgetting a third party has rights involving children. The children themselves, thats what the courts are taking into consideration regarding the parents.

[Fate]

This thread is dumb. If Bill isn't a retard and wears a condom with spermicide then 99.999999999% of the time this isn't an issue. I'm 30 and single with no kids, not because I'm a virgin, but because I'm not an idiot, (even when I drink).

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by Kran De Loy

I'd say local politics can have it, but federal sticking their fingers into the cake is just wrong.

So the Nineteenth Amendment was "just wrong", in your opinion? Hell, how about the entire US Constitution in general? Was it wrong for certain rights to be guaranteed to citizens? Is it wrong for a government to recognize injustices and make it a certainty that no citizen might be the victim of such injustice within the context of the law? The states have and continue to demonstrate that they do not serve the interests of all their governed peoples.

Originally Posted by Vecha

Eh....I'm not "for" or "against" abortion.

I'm a man.


It isn't my body....that's how I look at it.

At no time has it ever been a requirement to be directly impacted by an injustice in order to have retain the opinion that an injustice is just that. Would someone who is not a black person living in the 1850s not be within reason to say that the institution of slavery is immoral? Is it inappropriate to say that women having acid thrown in their face in Pakistan or wherever is a bad thing?

I think you'll agree that when it comes to topics which have significant, life-changing affects upon your fellow citizens, especially, it is not only within your capacity to have an opinion on the issue (which you would try to make as informed and coherent as possible), but to weigh in on this issue when appropriate in an effort to ensure that the best interests of justice and individual welfare are served.

[Senyu]

I don't know if this is a issue that will be solved anytime soon or ever. You can argue its the mans fault for screwing, the womens fault for being screwed, or blame both. (This is assuming they both consented to sex and was not raped) But in the case of girl not wanting the child, you have to define who has the right. The woman carrying the child, or the unborn child that will grow into a person. Define that and things can fall into order. Personally I recommend to give birth to the child, provided that having the pregnacy will not endanger the womens health such as shes 12 and having a baby could kill her or something. If the childs birth is not life threatening then the baby should be allowed to live.

But its not me. And I wont infringe the right of another person descision that effects them in such a huge way.

And here lies the dilemma, the right for life or the individual's desicsion. Both are right in their own ways. I don't know if this is something that can be solved in our time.