Cockpit View - [Now Forced per Higby]

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

If infantry had to run around like this because of the goggles they are all wearing, people would be peeved. Thats what the view would be like through those goggles that are actually present in game. If we're espousing realism and immersion now, this is what you are asking for. Is it a 'wallhack' to not have to see that constantly?

That's perfectly fine... it barely restricts your view at all. All you need to see is things immediately in front of you. Otherwise, turn your head (or vehicle.)

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

The flying cameras in PS1 allowed for easy infantry farming.

The complete lack of infantry weapons that were functional as AA allowed for easy infantry farming. Tanks could farm infantry far better than air, but nobody cared because they could fight back reasonably well.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

The complete lack of infantry weapons that were functional as AA allowed for easy infantry farming. Tanks could farm infantry far better than air, but nobody cared because they could fight back reasonably well.

If there were any weapons effective enough to rival the aircraft, pilots would cry foul and demand a nerf until they're useless anyway. The cockpit is the balancing factor. They can't do much to you, and you can't do much to them. You actually have to risk pointing your nose down now to find someone.

[Crator]

I voted no. Why wouldn't the tech exist that allows a pilot to pull his head gear over his head that has a camera feed to the eye goggles? Take the head gear off and you see the cockpit view. Just gives versatility and options to the pilot.

[Malorn]

We get it cutter, you don't like the obstruction because you want to see what's down there. I want to see what's behind grass, shrubs, and shadows too but they're in the game for the reason of making it harder for me to see them.

Naturally we prefer unobstructed views and dont' like artificially imposed restrictions. That's why I think the biggest mistake was the we were shown flight without the cockpit and then the cockpits went in. We got a glimpse of the clear blue sky we could have had and then had it taken away. That was a bad thing for them to show us before it was done. But GDC had to happen and flight is one of the cooler things in Planetside...welp.

The discussion we should be having is not whether you can turn on or off cockpits. The discussion should be what is the right level of obstruction for the cockpit and what the developer design intent is.

For example, I dislike the bars on the sides of the Mosquito cockpit. It looks like the Reaver will have similar bars, and we don't know whether the VS one will have them. I think they're too big and occupy too much of the screen. I'll live with it of course if it doesn't change, but I generally don't like that sort of obstruction. But it might be they wanted to make it a little more restricted and all of the aircraft have it. Or maybe it wasn't intended to be that restrictive and they'll change it.

It would help to get some infos from Higby on what the design intent is with the cockpits and whether they can be scaled back a bit to give us a more clear view but still maintain any sort of air-to-ground view obstruction they want to have.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

The complete lack of infantry weapons that were functional as AA allowed for easy infantry farming. Tanks could farm infantry far better than air, but nobody cared because they could fight back reasonably well.

It's not that infantry need AA weapons. Frankly, BF3 has become annoying with a stinger under every rock, even if they can't kill you because they are too weak. Aircraft instead should be prevented from farming infantry in other ways.

For one thing, the fact that aircraft can hover with little maneuverability penalties makes infantry farming easier. If fighter aircraft stalled out and crashed at low speed this wouldn't happen, modern shooters with realistic style aircraft can't loiter like that. Obviously that's NOT going to get changed, but perhaps there is some other way to avoid aircraft being infantry rapists?

Maybe there will be more cover this time around? I just don't think infantry ought to be able to engage air as easily as they can ground vehicles. And I don't even fly, so no, I'm not biased.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Malorn

We get it cutter, you don't like the obstruction because you want to see what's down there.

No. I actually don't care about that. What I don't want is 25% of my screen filled with something that does nothing at all. My vision is already admirably restricted by virtue of playing the game on a monitor. I would actually prefer the cockpit, if it was sensibly designed. They just never, ever are.

For example, I dislike the bars on the sides of the Mosquito cockpit. It looks like the Reaver will have similar bars, and we don't know whether the VS one will have them. I think they're too big and occupy too much of the screen. I'll live with it of course if it doesn't change, but I generally don't like that sort of obstruction.

Pretty much this, exactly. I already said I could live with the cockpit without those bars. As it stands they are just ridiculously restrictive.

[Biscuit]

Originally Posted by Malorn

If they don't force the cockpit it's a clear advantage for anyone who turns it off. At that point you'd be an idiot for not turning it off and most of the players wouldn't have it on.

The must be forced or it is meaningless.

^this

pretty much when turning grass/foilage off in PS1.


forced or non at all.

[EVILPIG]

I want to say that things that are designed to kill air will kill air effectively, so infantry farming should not be an issue. However, I will mention that one of my first suggestions back in August was that they remove the ability for aircraft to see infantry on their radar. Such a restriction would not require powerful handheld AA, but that is a whole other topic. Just wanted to throw it into the mix, because if we have forced cockpits and aircraft can't see infantry on radar, you don't even need hand held AA weaponry.

Personally, I like the sound of that.

[Malorn]

Great, lets focus the feedback on improving the cockpit we have.

Making it more "active" is one thing. We can put more useful things in the cockpit itself. The Minimap is one thing that could possible be moved in an aircraft. I like it middle-center. If we're going to have a cockpit occupying that prime real-estate lets put an easily viewable radar there. same with other aircraft indicators for health/ammo, missile-lock, afterburner, etc. Move those out of the corners and sides of the HUD and into the actual cockpit.

Free up the side space, and make better use of cockpit space.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by Hamma

You will be able to mouse look in the cockpit as well:

http://twitter.com/#!/mhigby/status/191987651497304066

Bring on the TripleHead2Go!

also my opinion is kill the fucking cockpit view i dont care if you get a reduced FOV because of it, should be able to play without that ugly jizz on your screen.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

I want to say that things that are designed to kill air will kill air effectively, so infantry farming should not be an issue. However, I will mention that one of my first suggestions back in August was that they remove the ability for aircraft to see infantry on their radar. Such a restriction would not require powerful handheld AA, but that is a whole other topic. Just wanted to throw it into the mix, because if we have forced cockpits and aircraft can't see infantry on radar, you don't even need hand held AA weaponry.

Personally, I like the sound of that.

This. I didn't realize aircraft could see infantry on radar but if they can that's got to be the first thing to go. This is not Battlefield, aircraft shouldn't be infantry sniping platforms.

[Crator]

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

I want to say that things that are designed to kill air will kill air effectively, so infantry farming should not be an issue. However, I will mention that one of my first suggestions back in August was that they remove the ability for aircraft to see infantry on their radar. Such a restriction would not require powerful handheld AA, but that is a whole other topic. Just wanted to throw it into the mix, because if we have forced cockpits and aircraft can't see infantry on radar, you don't even need hand held AA weaponry.

Personally, I like the sound of that.

Ya, cause ground infantry units wouldn't help to keep air off of targets that they can see on their radar. /sarcasim

[Malorn]

Originally Posted by elfailo

Once again, the fact that you're allowed to mouse-look in cockpit view invalidates all arguments made against no cockpit first person view.

No it doesn't - see here:
http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...&postcount=169

Then the fact that you're allowed to switch to third person invalidates the argument that it would be 'more unfair' towards infantry (as if it's going to be anywhere near fair to begin with). In third person you'll be able to see even more at that location.

From what I can tell most people don't like 3rd person either. Toss it.

[Talek Krell]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

I don't actually mind the idea of a cockpit. Just like I don't mind having the gun on screen for infantry, even though that restricts view as well. I dislike the bad, overly restrictive designs they universally share.

And if you were campaigning to have better designed cockpits then you wouldn't be running into so much resistance. What they've shown us is likely one of their earliest iterations. "Subject to change" would be an understatement. But you're campaigning to have toggle off cockpits, which effectively defeats the purpose of having the cockpit in the first place.

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Because your window to the world is already restricted enough just because its on a monitor.

Why though? What reasoning is the base of this?

Example:
I like cockpit view.<---Cockpit views make flying an aircraft feel more like flying an aircraft, complete with the pros and the cons.<---Cockpit views are immersive.<---I like to feel immersed in the game world.

As you can see I like cockpit views because they make the world more compelling to me. I'm fond of being able to look down and see my feet for the same reason (and in the game).