Should aircraft be able to see infantry on radar?

[Malorn]

I think this poll is a bit misleading/uninformative because we don't clearly know how spotting and radar works in PS2 and it appears to be a poll in the context of PS1.

We know a radar upgrade for some vehicles exists as a utility slot (tradeoff would be flares or safe-bail or other similar thing), and in PS2 that may very well be an auto-spotting mechanism for anything under the radar's effects, and it might have the same restrictions that the mosquito had in PS1. Due to different flight mechanics and a cockpit blocking view of stuff directly below the aircraft it could quite easily be balanced.

So then the question is does anything at all show up on your radar that is hostile if it is not spotted?

Do radar-like mechanics auto-spot?

If the answer is yes to both of those then there's no need for aircraft minimap to be any different from any other minimap.

I don't think anything hostile should show up on any radar that is not ether spotted or within range of a vehicle with radar/auto-spot functionality. If someone has spotted the infantry, or the aircraft has a radar utility upgrade (like the old mosquito), then absolutely it should show up. Someone spotted it, the pilot should receive that information.

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by Malorn

I think this poll is a bit misleading/uninformative because we don't clearly know how spotting and radar works in PS2 and it appears to be a poll in the context of PS1.

We know a radar upgrade for some vehicles exists as a utility slot (tradeoff would be flares or safe-bail or other similar thing), and in PS2 that may very well be an auto-spotting mechanism for anything under the radar's effects, and it might have the same restrictions that the mosquito had in PS1. Due to different flight mechanics and a cockpit blocking view of stuff directly below the aircraft it could quite easily be balanced.

So then the question is does anything at all show up on your radar that is hostile if it is not spotted?

Do radar-like mechanics auto-spot?

If the answer is yes to both of those then there's no need for aircraft minimap to be any different from any other minimap.

I don't think anything hostile should show up on any radar that is not ether spotted or within range of a vehicle with radar/auto-spot functionality. If someone has spotted the infantry, or the aircraft has a radar utility upgrade (like the old mosquito), then absolutely it should show up. Someone spotted it, the pilot should receive that information.

Pretty much this.

Personally I'm fine w/ these mechanics from PS1:

• Automatic 2D (minimap) spotting is shared by all members of your platoon; so if one member detects an enemy, the whole platoon sees it on the minimap so long as it's actively detected (so if it's still, quiet, and out of direct LOS it disappears from the minimap)
• Short-range vehicle/deployable-based detection systems (e.g. - Mossie Overflight Detection, Motion Sensors) gives automatic 2D spotting for everyone in the Empire, and it should detect any infantry moving or otherwise making noise
• Enemy units not seen or heard by members of your platoon don't show up on the minimap unless picked up by short-range vehicle/deployable detection systems
• There should be some way to block and/or not be detected by short-range vehicle/deployed systems. Not sure about 2D spotting tho (except maybe for cloakers)

IMO what we normally refer to as "RADAR" really isn't radar. It's more an interconnected communication/navigation/Command&Control system like a glorified Land Warrior system used by the US Army. People show up on the minimap when they're actually seen or heard by platoon members' bare senses and not just by an electronic detection system. Plus waypoints, floorplans, friendly deployables, etc are all marked as well. As such, any information shown on one player's minimap should be shared by all platoon members regardless of whether or not they are in a vehicle.

That said, people here have also asked for long-range RADAR systems for aircraft to be included in the game, like from an AWACS system. Something like that would most likely work differently than typical 2D spotting, and such systems should not pick up enemy infantry (except maybe MAXes). In fact, IMO no methods of detection that have a range longer than the size of the minimap should be able to pick up infantry, including such things as Reveals (unless it's really short range in PS2), 3D spotting done by platoon members outside of your minimap range, etc.


Oh, and as a side note for you old skool (read: pre-BFR) PS1 vets out there: Sometime in mid-2004 (I think), the Mossie's overflight detection was made active at all times, regardless of how fast it was going. Just thought I'd point that out since a couple ppl in this thread were under the impression it still worked only at low speeds. And IMO, for gameplay purposes I would classify the PS1 Mossie's overflight detection as something other than radar as well due to its extremely short range. More like an enhance motion/sound detection system.

[Kipper]

Radar != Minimap. Minimap blobs are blobs in your line of sight or that have been spotted by friendlies (this is usally how it goes, at least).

Radar is a method of spotting troops (friendly AND enemy) that you can't see visually.

Airborne radar in smaller aircraft is more often restricted to, or focussed on a cone that projects out of the front of the aircraft to help spot and lock targets on the approach, and its down to eyeballs, wingmen, and other aids to spot things coming in behind. (Larger aircraft or specialised AWACS obviously have a much wider view, but they don't really engage directly).

I'd like to see some form of approach/frontal radar on the fighters to assist with lining up attacks - by the time you can see something, it may be too late to line up an attack with rockets (especially if you're using speed as a defence). You still wouldn't be able to relay that information back to anyone except perhaps other air units in your squad.

A more full field of view radar would be an interesting thing to add to the galaxy as a AWACS / eye-in-the-sky for all the benefits and strategy thats been discussed elsewhere.

Adding it to the smaller aircraft could be do-able too, but it would be at the cost of offensive armament - a bit like the spotter planes in WWI & WWII, often they were fighters because they had speed, and they had their guns replaced with cameras and in many cases, armour was removed to save weight to gain speed and/or range.

[Malorn]

Originally Posted by Erendil

There should be some way to block and/or not be detected by short-range vehicle/deployed systems. Not sure about 2D spotting tho (except maybe for cloakers)

Implants are buffs now so its entirely possible for them to have an implant that makes one immune to vehicle&structure-based detection. It could also have limitations like PS1 where you are only immune if you are stationary or walking/crouch-walking.

I wonder if we can have advanced implants which have pre-requisites. For example if we have 4 implant slots, perhaps we can spend 1 slot on "basic radar immunity" which only works if you are stationary or walking. Then you have a second implant slot which requires that implant and allows immunity even while running. So we can be fully immune if we want but it costs us 2 implant slots. That could be a significant benefit for a significant cost.

It doesn't even need to be the same implant, it could simply be an sort of stacking-buff where one stack gets you walk/stationary immunity while two stacks gets you complete immunity. When one implant wears off (they are timer-based) you simply go down to one stack.

Same could be true for xp boosts and that sort of thing. Spend one implant slot for a moderate xp boost. Spend two for twice the effect. It's purely additive but the tradeoff is that you aren't using that implant slot for some other benefits (like radar immunity).

Hrm, I should probably put this in the idea vault