Unions

[Malorn]

Meh.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by Malorn

I also find it ridiculous that if I get moved to another office that's across the hall I can't move my own stuff because the corporate movers are unionized. Or people can't pick up a soda can off the floor because that's a union job.

Unions exist because employers almost always attempt to fuck their employees and exploit them for all they're worth. If there's a stipulation that you can't pick up litter yourself because it's a union job, the issue isn't that unions are jerks who love seeing litter and want you to call one of their guys to pick up a pop can, the issue is that unions have had to set such firm and absolute rules because otherwise employers will exploit or circumvent them whenever and however they can.

I don't deny that sometimes unions are annoying. Working in a hospital, nursing unions have some stuff that everyone else has to work around to an extent. And when I was working for the city as a paramedic, our union was the general city union so all negotiating was done with them, and as such we got paid really substandard wages compared to the rest of the province.

So, unions aren't perfect. But without them, jobs would once again become unsafe, wages minimal, and working schedules incredibly demanding. As I mentioned earlier, the only reason unions exist is because capitalism with a free hand is vicious and unsympathetic. If the price people pay to make sure their employer can't bleed them is a bit of silly stuff about litter or moving office supplies, so be it. It's a small price to pay.

[Malorn]

Meh.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Malorn

If unions were all that was holding employers back, why don't we see their membership growing to combat the evil employers? And why do we not see press coverage of the private sector and the non-union public sector employer injustices?

1. Not all corporations are evil. There are plenty with bosses that do actually care a lot about the welfare of their workers.

2. There is a HUGE risk involved in unionizing. Many/most states are at will employment states, meaning that they can fire you without cause. If you don't have overwhelming support and can't spring it on the company by surprise, you stand a very good chance of simply being fired. Its exactly like a revolt against a government.. you need a critical mass of people willing to risk everything.

3. Some people have spent a lot of money for decades painting unions in the worst possible light. Kinda like the anti socialist rhetoric.

But in the modern era I'm not seeing the necessity.

The threat of unionization undoubtedly keeps some of excesses in check, and even if you don't need a union because you have a great boss/owner/whatever, you still have no power. You depend on your bosses good will, and if he changes his mind, or gets replaced, it can all go to shit.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by Malorn

If that were the case why are there many workers without unions getting along just fine?

The reason you in your non-union job aren't expected to work a 10 - 12 hour shift, 6 days a week, for far less than whatever you're making right now is because of unions and the standard they set for workforces in the developed world. It's unions and government regulation that gives you your vacations and your weekends and your 9 - 5. If capitalism had its way, it would work you to death for a pittance and then simply replace you when you died at 40, just like it did in the good ol' days.

Anyway, none of this shit is actually about unions or money or what's fair for workers. It's about the Republicans trying to gut one of the main sources of money and organization behind the Democratic party. The bullshit in Wisconsin and other places, where they're trying to castrate unions, is because Democrats traditionally receive a lot of money and votes from unions. No unions means an easier time winning elections for Republicans.

[Malorn]

Meh.

[Vash02]

Originally Posted by Malorn

I'm not questioning the role unions have had in shaping labor laws. There was a time when they were required. But that was a different time, not the modern era of mass media, well-established laws, and a culture for lawsuits. I'm more interested in the value they have now, which doesn't seem to be much.

How about massive paycuts/layoffs and the repealing of some workers rights laws (like the equal pay law in Wisconsin).

[Malorn]

Meh.