What a travisty

[ChargerCarl]

Originally Posted by LegioX

Yes. Lets do the obvious dumb ass thing and hit the American people with the biggest tax hike in history while the economy is shit. We have idiots running this country.

"The mandate can indeed be characterized as a tax, as the Court found. But it is not a massive tax hike on the middle class, much less the biggest tax hike in American history. The tax imposed by the individual mandate amounts to either $695 or 2.5 percent of household income for those who don’t have insurance and are not exempt based on income levels. By comparison, the payroll tax cut extension Republicans repeatedly blocked earlier this year would have added 3.1 percentage points to the tax and cost the average family $1,500 a year."

"The mandate, meanwhile, would hit a small amount of Americans — somewhere between 2 and 5 percent — according to a study from the Urban Institute. The number could be even lower depending on the law’s success: in Massachusetts, the only state with an insurance mandate, less than 1 percent of the state’s residents paid the penalty in 2009."

[ItsTheSheppy]

Originally Posted by ChargerCarl

"The mandate can indeed be characterized as a tax, as the Court found. But it is not a massive tax hike on the middle class, much less the biggest tax hike in American history. The tax imposed by the individual mandate amounts to either $695 or 2.5 percent of household income for those who don’t have insurance and are not exempt based on income levels. By comparison, the payroll tax cut extension Republicans repeatedly blocked earlier this year would have added 3.1 percentage points to the tax and cost the average family $1,500 a year."

"The mandate, meanwhile, would hit a small amount of Americans — somewhere between 2 and 5 percent — according to a study from the Urban Institute. The number could be even lower depending on the law’s success: in Massachusetts, the only state with an insurance mandate, less than 1 percent of the state’s residents paid the penalty in 2009."

Dude get the fuck out of here with your facts and quotes and shit, can't you see the world is ending? Good men did nothing, evil has triumphed, and I don't have time to read all that stuff AND stockpile guns for coming Race Wars.

[Neurotoxin]

Blows my mind that we have to pay for health care. Of all the wealthy industrialized nations, one of the richest in history can't provide for it's citizens. We should pay for health care the same as we pay for roads, and should be able to access health care as easily as we can access roads.

[ChargerCarl]

race war!

whites win!

[Malorn]

Meh.

[ChargerCarl]

Originally Posted by Exmortius

last i checked europe isn't doing all that well. your countries are bailing each other out atm. spain and greece are just the beginning. this was another attempt for them to turn the states into more of a clone of a slow failing europe. you may be sick of it but we're sick of our country being turned into something against our will. majority of americans do not want this, we know what will come with this decision. i'm in my 30s now and i'm definitely concerned at what is slowly going on with the states. you can either blow it off or be apathetic or speak up. most of us speak up and state our opinion or displeasure with what's going on. it might not be long before that is ruled illegal or a tax levied if this keeps up......sadly.

The euro crisis has nothing at all to do with health care or the welfare state. I could explain it to you, but I won't hijack this thread.

Originally Posted by Malorn

It has certainly rallied the conservatives and ~60% of the country that disapproves of the law.

The only reason it has low support is because the right has done a masterful job of muddying the waters and confusing the debate. Remember the whole death panels fiasco?

When polled about what the ACA actually does the public supports it, even republicans.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-what-it-does/

[ItsTheSheppy]

It's almost like you're saying that the right-wing media engine obfuscated the facts in the nonstop war to win. But we know that's not true because the media is dominated by a liberal bias.

[Malorn]

Meh.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Neurotoxin

Blows my mind that we have to pay for health care. Of all the wealthy industrialized nations, one of the richest in history can't provide for it's citizens. We should pay for health care the same as we pay for roads, and should be able to access health care as easily as we can access roads.

I think elfailo summed it up well in his (sarcastic?) rant showing the odder side of American politics.

Originally Posted by elfailo

It's not stupid, it's smart. He knew he couldn't count on empathy from the self-absorbed lower middle class, so he played you like the chumps you are, and now your hard earned money is going straight into the dental fillings of a bum.

Hahaha. Welcome to Europe btw.

There are people that hold a very strong concept that funding for social services is unnecessary in the US and that things like single payer isn't the right direction. It's going to take a while for them to realize the only people they're hurting is themselves. Until then we have to take small steps toward solving the problems without angering them.

Especially now that congress won't allow real solutions to be passed. It's going to be a difficult year until reelection.

Originally Posted by Malorn

Competition will lead to lower prices, tort reform will lead to lower costs by insurers, and personal accountability will lead to lower health care costs overall.

Realizing that capitalism isn't the solution to the healthcare problem seems to be beyond you. Competition is the reason we needed change. It wasn't working at all. I seriously doubt any form of reform would allow a private industry to start caring for citizens like a proper single payer system can. If you read half the stories about the horrors of insurance companies in the US you'd realize they aren't a viable solution in the long run.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Warborn

This thread is honestly hilarious. Someone says the word "tax" and people start foaming at the mouth. How in the fuck did it ever come to this? How did you people get spun into such hysterics over such banal shit?

This whole thread seems quite hilarious. US polarised political doomsday paranoia propaganda is just comedy classics. Neither side has any idea what they're talking about whenever the other says something, meaning so much is lost in translation it's well... hilarious.

What's funniest is that the greatest opponents of aiding their fellow men are Orthodox Zealot Christians. "Aiding your fellow men is like... like socialism we pay for! Like it's like the USSR man!". Hilarious to see people make such statements and be so far removed from the concept of responsibility for fellow citizens and what basically comes down to obligatory charity that may also benefit yourself directly.




Anyway... Uhm something in line with the rest of this thread.

"YER RIGHTS, GO GIT UHM BAKK!"

Pitchforks! $1.99 per pitchfork! Get three for just $3.59! Only today: Free torch included!





Never lose a good opportunity for business!

[ChargerCarl]

Originally Posted by elfailo

That's not entirely true. What do you think Greece was trying to do with all the money they loaned at false interest after switching to the euro?

Greece technically weren't even allowed to join the eurozone because of their shitty growth and high debt, but fortunately Lloyd Blankfein and his homebois stepped up to the challenge of covering it all up in CDS' @ fantasy land exchange rates to make a lousy few million bucks.

US isn't Greece though. Admittedly the economy isn't up to par for US standards after the housing market fiasco+hunting down that bearded monkey, but it's nowhere near as awful as Greece was. It's not like you have no room to maneuver financially whatsoever.

Greece is the exception, and the only reason a greek default would be a disaster is because the ECB refuses to act as the lender of last resort and the germans insist on imposing ultra tight monetary policy across the eurozone choking off nominal growth.

[ItsTheSheppy]

I think it's a little naive to think that health insurance companies would compete themselves into lower prices, especially when they were making so much money bilking us before. I mean they have until recently been more or less allowed to run wild and where that got us was a health infrastructure that is the shame of the developed world.

I don't think the government option would be necessarily superior, but hey... some people can't afford Premium and have to settle for Basic; but at least they'd get covered, and not just made more poor.

Meanwhile, speaking as a guy who is gainfully employed and has health insurance, this legislation will mean... hang on...

*taps away on a calculator a bit*

Absolutely nothing to me and likely everyone else reading this post.

[Sirisian]

[Malorn]

Meh.

[ChargerCarl]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Health care is no different from any other commodity.

Actually it is as Kenneth Arrow outlined in 1963:

http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/82/2/PHCBP.pdf