Let's Focus on Real Issues

[sylphaen]

Originally Posted by artifice

I am tired of seeing the constant whining. Planetside 2 is not Planetside 1, deal with it already.

@artifice: While you may feel that you stand on the other spectrum of the debate and defend the "right cause", I believe you may have missed the intent/meaning of Hamma's post.

@everyone: IMO, Hamma has made a wonderful post about being constructive on a forum. If you read it closely, he said many things in his OP in a very tactful way.

In essence, there are very simple rules that help everyone:
- if it's not constructive, do not post it.
- if it spreads negativity, do not post it.
- if it does not add value, do not post it.
- if it is already being discussed, do not start a new thread.
- if the thread is not helpful, avoid it and let it die.
- etc...

Of course, we all do our share of mistakes and Hamma's post was very understanding of that. PSU is not about to go TR totalitarian, he is kindly asking to help us keep the forums relevant for both devs and users.

He never said to stop voicing opinions or constructive criticism but to maintain a decent quality of feedback; if some do not understand his concerns or respect his efforts to keep offering a great spot on the internet to share about Planetside, maybe PSU is not their kind of community.

Quality is a community effort and PSU has great members. Let's keep this place a place where we want to stay, participate and enjoy sharing ideas.

Cheers everyone !

[Malorn]

Everyone working on PS2 cares deeply about the game and wants to make an awesome experience for you and millions of others.

When providing feedback, it really helps to try to capture the actual problem. What is the underlying issue? How is it affecting your play? And of course what are some ideas you might have on solving it? Lots of forum posts everywhere focus on solutions and don't identify the problem very well. One of the first things you learn in school is that the key to solving problems is first identifying and understanding them. Ideas for solutions help and can generate other ideas, but if the actual problem isn't listed it's already dead in the water. Also, solutions needs to be fit into the game vision, long-term plan, and schedule, so it may take some time before you see results. Because there isn't a response or an immediate change doesn't mean folks aren't listening.

To give an example on a common hot topic...the lattice, or lack thereof. The problem is not that there isn't a lattice (that's a proposed solution that does not fit well into the game design); the problems are that its hard to find a fight, hard to corral players, hard for players to guide other players, and easy to get lost and confused. There are many solutions to those problems, and better ones than a lattice. They will be solved in a way that fits with the longer term game plan and vision. What helps is if players identify those problems and provide examples of how it is affecting their play. Then offering up ideas for solutions is a great way to inspire new ideas. But don't get attached to any specific solution as there are many ways to solve any problem and the best ones may yet to be invented. Instead of drilling in on the lattice which is something that has been repeatedly said doesn't fit and isn't where the team wants the game to go, try new ideas. Explore the problem more, and see other ways we can make finding a fight better, create more fights, understand the tools and information players need.

I'll parrot Smed and cite Henry Ford,

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

When you describe the problem - a need for faster transportation - it helps us arrive at a race car solution. And it's a bit of a waste of time rat-holing on why we want to give you something better than faster horses. The common context for communication is the underlying problems. Focusing on that context is how you stay constructive and really help out the dev team and help make PS2 better.

Being negative just bums us out and isn't helpful. Everyone here has great intentions and is working hard to make you a great game you will play for the next decade. Help us do that by taking the time to think about the issue constructively, the root causes, and giving that feedback. You dont' even need to suggest solutions. Clarifying the problem is a huge help in and of itself.

[ringring]

Nicely put Malorn.

[nowefall]

I just can't help at this point that the game isn't going to change much. A few weeks until launch only helps but increases my fears for this game. I also just don't understand why SOE couldn't simply have gone with the formula used in Plantside 1 instead of reshaping everything, and making Planetside 2 a shadow of it's former self.

[HolyHandGrenade]

I would like to point out a small point that has been missed on occasion and may have caused some drama... '2.'

This is Planetside 2, not Planetside 1/Next. It is a different game.

Obviously, the original spawned a tight knit group of veterans who loved that game and are very passionate about the series. I think that is awesome.

However, again, this is a new game. The dynamics are changed, and are tailored to a much wider audience; I also think that is awesome. PC gamers from many, many genres/series are going to be drawn into this game. I think that the number of players is going to be FAR greater than that of the original, as this is F2P, looks gorgeous, plays well IMO, is fun, and is really different than any other game out there.

I don't mean to step on anyone's toes; this is simply how I understand what is going on. I can from being on the forums that many people are passionate about this game and want to see it do well; in keeping with Hamma's original topic, I would offer the suggestion that the best way to express that passion is positively, rather than negatively.

[Livefire]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Everyone working on PS2 cares deeply about the game and wants to make an awesome experience for you and millions of others.

When providing feedback, it really helps to try to capture the actual problem. What is the underlying issue? How is it affecting your play? And of course what are some ideas you might have on solving it? Lots of forum posts everywhere focus on solutions and don't identify the problem very well. One of the first things you learn in school is that the key to solving problems is first identifying and understanding them. Ideas for solutions help and can generate other ideas, but if the actual problem isn't listed it's already dead in the water. Also, solutions needs to be fit into the game vision, long-term plan, and schedule, so it may take some time before you see results. Because there isn't a response or an immediate change doesn't mean folks aren't listening.

To give an example on a common hot topic...the lattice, or lack thereof. The problem is not that there isn't a lattice (that's a proposed solution that does not fit well into the game design); the problems are that its hard to find a fight, hard to corral players, hard for players to guide other players, and easy to get lost and confused. There are many solutions to those problems, and better ones than a lattice. They will be solved in a way that fits with the longer term game plan and vision. What helps is if players identify those problems and provide examples of how it is affecting their play. Then offering up ideas for solutions is a great way to inspire new ideas. But don't get attached to any specific solution as there are many ways to solve any problem and the best ones may yet to be invented. Instead of drilling in on the lattice which is something that has been repeatedly said doesn't fit and isn't where the team wants the game to go, try new ideas. Explore the problem more, and see other ways we can make finding a fight better, create more fights, understand the tools and information players need.

I'll parrot Smed and cite Henry Ford,

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

When you describe the problem - a need for faster transportation - it helps us arrive at a race car solution. And it's a bit of a waste of time rat-holing on why we want to give you something better than faster horses. The common context for communication is the underlying problems. Focusing on that context is how you stay constructive and really help out the dev team and help make PS2 better.

Being negative just bums us out and isn't helpful. Everyone here has great intentions and is working hard to make you a great game you will play for the next decade. Help us do that by taking the time to think about the issue constructively, the root causes, and giving that feedback. You dont' even need to suggest solutions. Clarifying the problem is a huge help in and of itself.

Ok look, we do not want to be negative but we are the customers and we know what we want and what we want to spend are money on and we are trying to tell you.

In fact using the PS community's creativeness we have made this as simple for you as possible, go here http://planetside-tracker.com/issues/ and work your way down the list, #1 and #2 are obviously the most important and then build stuff on top of that after you finish the list. Then we actually have a game that works and is mostly balanced.

If you continue to go around the problems and around the known solutions that have worked in the past and the community wants so bad then it only tells us one thing. That there is a white board in the back of your office that every one has had to read that Smed has drawn a business plan on that says something like this. BF3 = these $$$ massive profits last year and the investors/board of directors wants PS2 to be like this and that, and not this, and it has to be out by this date no exceptions. With a small note from Smed on the bottom that says: Work with and give the small financially insignificant PS community anything they want except something that would violate or interfere with the original demanded game design drawn above.

[ixx]

Totally agree here.
The whole PS2 beta experiance has been fantastic. The amount of time Matt and devs have commited to the community is astonishing. It's the first beta i've partipiated in that i feel part of the development process and constructive feedback is listened to.

So stop your complaining - and look at what an amazing game this is!

I played PS1 for 4+ years and initially wanted more PS1 with new shinny DX11 graphics. After playing the beta since it was opened up to PS1 vetarens, I'm happy the game is different and replects more modern fps game mechanics. I'm totally confident that Matt and devs are 110% behind making this a once in a generation game.

What else is there like PS2 - nothing !

You have my money - Alpha Squad + membership -
bring on 20-11 !

[Sturmhardt]

Okay so one of the real issues: is cross continental warfare going to be in before the launch? I remember Higby saying it will be in some video a few weeks ago...

[Crator]

Originally Posted by Sturmhardt

Okay so one of the real issues: is cross continental warfare going to be in before the launch? I remember Higby saying it will be in some video a few weeks ago...

I haven't heard anything new about this lately. Was there any new news about it?

[Dagron]

Originally Posted by Crator

I haven't heard anything new about this lately. Was there any new news about it?

What do you mean by cross continental warfare? Locking continents, etc? If so, i don't think so... they said it takes more than 3 continents for that to work.

[Hamma]

That stuff is coming we just don't have any ETAs on any of it.

[Kyonye]

If this isn't 'Murica, I don't know what is.

[Rodel]

I think this is the best game ever made.

A lot of the guys I play with will have coniptions every time the developers change something and its just amazing that so many people jump into a Beta and whine about it acting like a Beta. There is no other game like PS2 and I have a lot of fun playing.

I dare somebody to show me a better MMOFPS.

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by Malorn

the problems are that its hard to find a fight, hard to corral players, hard for players to guide other players, and easy to get lost and confused.

This is 100% because, BY DESIGN, fights are short and favor steamrolling and spawn camping.

There is not enough time to recognize a fight, mount and organize a response, and execute that response. There is only time to zerg and die over and over again until mass on point wins out.

[Rodel]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

This is 100% because, BY DESIGN, fights are short and favor steamrolling and spawn camping.

There is not enough time to recognize a fight, mount and organize a response, and execute that response. There is only time to zerg and die over and over again until mass on point wins out.

I dissagree...

The reason why I believe a lot of people have this opinion is because the fights are so dynamic that they constantly evolving and require insight and intuition to understand. I often can see where the fight is going to be and am able to move my outfit to counter. Some times that's difflicult and I relly on active scouting to determine enemy movement. But the point is that the meta game is actually a challenge to master (I don't claim to be a master) and if you suck at it you won't relize it...