SoE locking threads on main forums about their "beta" Secret. You are still in beta! - Page 2

Captain1nsaneo · 2012-12-12, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by fod

i read the original thread and it said something about having to download the game again or something

1) where is his proof that we will have to download the whole game again
2) who cares if we have to download the whole game again

I haven't heard anything about this and it seems that the original thread has been deleted. I'd like to know more about what happened but now all I have to go off of is your post and the tinfoil comments. I'd like to also use RadarX's comment for information but:

The thread was non-constructive and provides no useful feedback to our development team.

Doesn't exactly give me much to work with as that's the justification I've seen most often for closing any thread. There's no malevolence behind it, just that it gives me nothing to work with to figure out what happened and if I should ignore it as all the tinfoil hat posts tell me I should.

In fact, closing the thread was probably a poor way of dealing with it simply because closing it draws more attention. If you want something killed don't dam it up because human nature will be drawn to it. It's like a large button with "Don't Push" written above in red. Instead point out logical problems with it such as (and I'm guessing the problem was that people thought that there were two version of the game out the release and the beta) pointing to server costs, data flow, and asking people to check on their own and report back if people who had done the 'fix' and those who had not were able to play together. The community would have discovered that it was bollocks and then derided the subject into oblivion. Instead, you get this.

There's also something to be said for as to why someone would think this but that would make this post longer than it already is.

**RadarX** · 2012-12-12, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo

I haven't heard anything about this and it seems that the original thread has been deleted. I'd like to know more about what happened but now all I have to go off of is your post and the tinfoil comments. I'd like to also use RadarX's comment for information but:

Doesn't exactly give me much to work with as that's the justification I've seen most often for closing any thread. There's no malevolence behind it, just that it gives me nothing to work with to figure out what happened and if I should ignore it as all the tinfoil hat posts tell me I should.

In fact, closing the thread was probably a poor way of dealing with it simply because closing it draws more attention. If you want something killed don't dam it up because human nature will be drawn to it. It's like a large button with "Don't Push" written above in red. Instead point out logical problems with it such as (and I'm guessing the problem was that people thought that there were two version of the game out the release and the beta) pointing to server costs, data flow, and asking people to check on their own and report back if people who had done the 'fix' and those who had not were able to play together. The community would have discovered that it was bollocks and then derided the subject into oblivion. Instead, you get this.

There's also something to be said for as to why someone would think this but that would make this post longer than it already is.

I'm going to both agree and disagree with your statement. I've been doing this job for awhile and I've not only made mistakes but watched other people make them. I can tell you with no arrogance or elitism just hard facts about what works.

I agree with you that you don't dam up a problem. You are open about it which is why I'm posting here. I disagree however not closing the thread is the solution.

If I don't close that one, there are a dozen more I shouldn't close. Then I have people complaining they can't find things on the forums and all everyone is doing is complaining. Then the development team misses some great feedback because these threads are pushing more pertinent threads down.

As for specifics, I can concede there are situations we can provide more. As I'm helping our moderation team parse through tens of thousands of posts a day, I can get moving too quickly.

A thread should always do one of two things: Raise a specific gameplay concern we can address (effectively calling us liars and stating we are still in Beta doesn't qualify) or build up the community in some way. That thread accomplished neither.

ShockFC · 2012-12-12, 06:40 PM

BTW,

The bans in questions (from the thread I created) were reversed.

You bowed down to pressure Hamma. This was a major community concern and you censored it on forums that shouldn't have influence form SOE.

Shame.

DirtyBird · 2012-12-12, 06:44 PM

I think you could look at that decision form both sides of the fence.

Ghryphen · 2012-12-12, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by ShockFC

BTW,

The bans in questions (from the thread I created) were reversed.

You bowed down to pressure Hamma. This was a major community concern and you censored it on forums that shouldn't have influence form SOE.

Shame.

We don't allow it here because they are of no use and only cause endless speculation and mud slinging across multiple threads because people have a difficult time using existing topics. Sony is not going to take action on an account because of any post made on PSU. We are not bowing to SOE, it is simply not a community we want to foster here. We have our own goals for PSU.

Regarding cheaters, SOE has supplied a method to report players, SOE has the data, they have the admin tools, they have the business plan, they know more than any random players speculation.

As far as bad bans, it is up to the player who got banned to contact SOE support and get unbanned. They are not going to unban based on any post here, even more so by people who don't even own the account.

Electrofreak · 2012-12-12, 08:36 PM

This thread is hilarious. Reminds me that a lot of people just love a good conspiracy theory.

The PS2 devs made no secret during the Beta that it was a real beta, not just a marketing beta. And, after release, obviously they are going to continue to improve the game however they can. Yes, there are a few significant bugs, but frankly, that happens with every game out there. I dare you to name one that did not have bugs after official release!

I'm seeing PS2 do very well and I'm seeing a lot of positive changes. SOE has walked off with more of my money than I care to admit because they've done a good job of working the F2P model and reeling me in. That said, every purchase I made has been entirely voluntary and I don't regret it!

So basically what I see in this thread is some whining about how the devs are still working on the game. Honestly, they had the game in pretty good shape when it launched and they got it out at a time that would allow people to chat about it with fellow gaming family members at Thanksgiving. There are a lot of F2P games out there right now and word of mouth is necessary to succeed, and it has.

Seriously, the conspiracy theorists need to shut up and deal. SOE has been pretty freakin' straight with us during the entire beta process. They've been involved with the community, they've reacted to our complaints, and they continue to do a damn good job of bettering the game. I challenge you all to find another development team that has been as transparent and as understanding as the PS2 team.

I'm going to guess people like the OP haven't been in the MechWarrior Online beta. I have been (during the PS2 beta) and I had to stop playing it because the community feels like they're yelling into an empty room after a while, and I got tired of listening only to echoes. Some day it'll be a finished product, but beta started for that game before PS2's beta started and it still has a ways to go before launch.

Play in a F2P beta like that and suddenly you'll feel pretty foolish for crying about SOE's launch of PS2.

Oh, and as for the people complaining about the PSU staff, let me level with you; Hamma and his team are a pretty cool bunch of guys (I've met most of them IRL so I can say that safely) and honestly, if your thread is locked or you're banned, you probably earned it. There's a reason people come to this forum instead of just posting on the official forums, and it's not to listen to the same stupid bullshit. It's their forum and if you get "censored" it's because what you have to say has no place here. Take your whining somewhere else, this website is for more mature, constructive discussion.

Have a nice day.

Captain1nsaneo · 2012-12-12, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by RadarX

I'm going to both agree and disagree with your statement. I've been doing this job for awhile and I've not only made mistakes but watched other people make them. I can tell you with no arrogance or elitism just hard facts about what works.

I agree with you that you don't dam up a problem. You are open about it which is why I'm posting here. I disagree however not closing the thread is the solution.

If I don't close that one, there are a dozen more I shouldn't close. Then I have people complaining they can't find things on the forums and all everyone is doing is complaining. Then the development team misses some great feedback because these threads are pushing more pertinent threads down.

As for specifics, I can concede there are situations we can provide more. As I'm helping our moderation team parse through tens of thousands of posts a day, I can get moving too quickly.

A thread should always do one of two things: Raise a specific gameplay concern we can address (effectively calling us liars and stating we are still in Beta doesn't qualify) or build up the community in some way. That thread accomplished neither.

Thank you for the reply Radar, I know you have a wealth of experience in running official forums and I had some notion that the closing was mainly for dev benefit. I must also confess that the concept of dealing with an even hand to threads whose merit isn't quite inline with the forum's mission had escaped me. I imagine that the response of a thread being non-constructive and providing no useful feedback is something born of simple time restrictions. Though I still don't like it because it doesn't give players an example of what they should be talking about or where the discussion they are having would be appropriate.

However, this has brought a question to mind. Who are the forums chiefly for? The Devs or Players? Obviously the answer we want is 'both' but that's impossible.
Official forums are payed for and hosted by the game's producer and they want a solid source of feedback they can reference to so they know what's happening ingame. They also want these spaces to be relatively clean and, if possible, have a positive note about the game. Sort of like a large and somewhat unruly research group.
Players on the other hand just want to talk. Often that talk is directed at the game but for good or ill it roams around.

You implied a bit of this desired duality in your last paragraph in that a thread should either talk about a gameplay problem or should build up the community. I'm not totally ok with that for the following logic. If there is going to be a crackpot theory or derogatory thread you would want it under your own roof in a place marked out for them. The reason is that then it's still under your power and you know about it rather than it being in a private forum that is outside your jurisdiction and may never actually come under your eye.
I believe there are solutions to this problem, it's just a matter of finding one that works. Here's an example idea: make a category that can be posted in but threads can't be started in. Call it "Crackpot Theories" or some such. Whenever a hot thread that falls into the grey shows up, rather than closing it and like like a bug zapper sending entrails everywhere, move it into the Crackpot category and let it die there under appropriate supervision. In this way the threads that the devs don't need to see aren't kept around and the community can keep its dirty laundry in one place and more importantly under your supervision.

Hamma · 2012-12-12, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Gryphon

We don't allow it here because they are of no use and only cause endless speculation and mud slinging across multiple threads because people have a difficult time using existing topics. Sony is not going to take action on an account because of any post made on PSU. We are not bowing to SOE, it is simply not a community we want to foster here. We have our own goals for PSU.

Regarding cheaters, SOE has supplied a method to report players, SOE has the data, they have the admin tools, they have the business plan, they know more than any random players speculation.

As far as bad bans, it is up to the player who got banned to contact SOE support and get unbanned. They are not going to unban based on any post here, even more so by people who don't even own the account.

Exactly.

If you don't like it, you are free to go to another internet forum.

By the way, I bowed down to no pressure. It was my decision and my decision alone.

klu · 2012-12-12, 10:46 PM

they reversed bans... more than one? i guess they werent 100% sure after all

i totally get why you would want to stop the mud slinging but it would be nice to have a thread to discuss the criteria for bans without getting into specific players. i wont be spending another dime on this game till i get some conformation that you cannot be banned for a high number of player reports alone

MaxDamage · 2012-12-12, 11:10 PM

Congratulations. This has become the thread that Hamma closed.

NapalmEnima · 2012-12-13, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by MaxDamage

Congratulations. This has become the thread that Hamma closed.

Clearly.

PoisonTaco · 2012-12-13, 12:34 AM

Most people don't even know what a beta is.

psijaka · 2012-12-13, 04:49 AM

Moderators on any forum are perfectly within their rights in deleting or locking a non constructive whining thread such as that started by the OP, and I would encourage them to continue doing so in a vigorous manner.

There's so much hyperbole rich rubbish on this and other forums that it is hard to get a decent constructive discussion going on more serious issues relating to the game.

Just what was the point of the OP? SoE are very evil people in pretending that a beta is not a beta and is in actual fact a beta and then conspiring to hide the fact....really; more bleating than from a field of freshly weaned lambs.

Ghoest9 · 2012-12-13, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by Gryphon

We don't allow it here because they are of no use and only cause endless speculation and mud slinging across multiple threads because people have a difficult time using existing topics. Sony is not going to take action on an account because of any post made on PSU. We are not bowing to SOE, it is simply not a community we want to foster here. We have our own goals for PSU.

Regarding cheaters, SOE has supplied a method to report players, SOE has the data, they have the admin tools, they have the business plan, they know more than any random players speculation.

As far as bad bans, it is up to the player who got banned to contact SOE support and get unbanned. They are not going to unban based on any post here, even more so by people who don't even own the account.

Then the logical answer would have been to confine the discussion to 1 thread.

BTW the suspicion is not that threads here would get an unban but rather the opposite.
That SOE wouldnt unban people unless you made sure the reinstated poster couldnt use this forum as a means for the point out SOEs mistake.

Figment · 2012-12-13, 06:34 AM

It's not beta, it's gamma!

Gamma-game shall from now on be known as an unfinished, but launched work in progress game.

(WoT would also fall in that category).