Lets talk about the ressource system. Right now, its borderline Pay to Win

[Malorn]

Not going to comment on boosts, sorry.

What do you think of infantry, ground, and air all using the same resource?

[Dreamcast]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Not going to comment on boosts, sorry.

What do you think of infantry, ground, and air all using the same resource?

That will benefit players who play one role a lot...Like me, I mostly play infantry.


I almost never use vehicles or aircraft at all so they are always max at 750.

So Im for it....it will feel more "fair" than now.

But you guys should get rid of Resource boost...I remember you guys comparing this to League of Legends...that's like if League of legends sold boost to get more gold each time somebody killed a champ or more gold per second...Sure in LoL you buy things in game that gives u permanent power increase during the duration of the game, that doesn't happen in PS2, 1 vs 1 are fair mostly if people have a similar weapon(tank vs Tank,sniper vs sniper,etc)....but overtime you see the huge advantage Paying players get since they can buy a bunch of tanks/planes/medic kits/etc.

Is not fair when resources is in game power.

This is the reason why Resource discount cost for winning a continent is only 10%....If you guys made it 50%, that faction will be way too OP lol.

[basti]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Not going to comment on boosts, sorry.

What do you think of infantry, ground, and air all using the same resource?

Just making all the same resource isnt helping really, because thats not the problem.

The main problem of the resource system is that it makes it harder to defend the more you actually have to defend. When you got pushed to your warpgate, you just have a hard time maintaining whatever territorys you still have, because you just cant use as much maxes, C4, vehicles and stuff. Meanwhile, the dudes attacking can use even more stuff, because they get more resources.

I have countless potential new resource systems in mind that would fix this issue, but none of them would be possible as long as you are required to have a personal resource pool, and boosts just force that.


Some guys got the idea of some kind of supply chain. To boil it down to its core: the further away from your warpgate you are, the more expensive vehicles become, and/or the less resources you get out of territorys that far away from your warpgate. While this would in theory greatly reduce the issue, it would complicate the resource system greatly.

I personally want all resources to be an empire wide pool, cross continent even, while infantary resources have a personal pool besides the empire wide pool. With a more complex command system, allowing squad/platoon leaders to claim lead of a given area if they have most/all of their squad/platoon in that area, Squad/platoon leaders could issue a "go all out" order, filling up everyones infantary resource pool by taking those resources from the empire pool. This would allow for last resort options like mass maxcrashes or crazy LA C4 action, or allow to prepare for an incoming attack by laying vast minefields.

To then combat situations where you are about to become warpgated, a resource reserver that automaticly triggers whenever your empire is pushed back far enough and low on resources would do the trick, and allow timed, mass pushes.

I want the resource system something that your entire empire needs to think and care about, or they get into trouble.

[DeltaGun]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Not going to comment on boosts, sorry.

What do you think of infantry, ground, and air all using the same resource?

Why have resources at all? Why not base the system completely on timers?

[omega four]

I think the resources are SOE's way of trying to incorporate grand strategy into PS2. The problem is most casual gamers really aren't interested in strategy at all.

Originally Posted by DeltaGun

Why have resources at all? Why not base the system completely on timers?

[Crator]

Originally Posted by omega four

I think the resources are SOE's way of trying to incorporate grand strategy into PS2. The problem is most casual gamers really aren't interested in strategy at all.

You make it sound like all players are casual. Or that casual players can't participate along with the other that are doing the strategic part. Or that casual players can't get interested enough to start participating in the strategic part. Strategy is the part that gets you hooked into the game hardcore btw.

[GeoGnome]

Originally Posted by Crator

You make it sound like all players are casual. Or that casual players can't participate along with the other that are doing the strategic part. Or that casual players can't get interested enough to start participating in the strategic part. Strategy is the part that gets you hooked into the game hardcore btw.

Not to mention that saying that "The problem is casual Gamers" is a convenient way to push the blame on other people. The Filthy casuals are the ones causing the problem, no real hardcore gamer would waste resources... This is what is known as "no true scotsman"

Crator is right. The overarching strategy is what makes the game worth playing, because one person's actions become greater than just "Capture point, kill people" when there are things you can do that actively contribute to the faction as a whole.

I my own resource proposal I said something about having a system by which there were resources in each base. The individual allotment was approximately the same as it is now, but with only 1 resource.

The change I intended to make in my followup, was that individual allotment should be determined by player conduct. Basically, lump grief prevention and resources into one. If someone shoots friendlies, they get a resource allotment penalty. The penalties will universally be more severe than the benefits, so one penalty will undo a lot of good. Eventually if your good Enough, you can get More than the usual resource allotment. This rewards players who take the time to play the game correctly, and punishes those who constantly TK and do other things that are detrimental to the cause. It makes sense, because your not giving unfettered access to the resource stocks to someone who is a complete idiot. People who accidentally TK will get a penalty, but it'll be something they can climb out of.

Now even this will be flawed by some people Just naturally getting more resource than another group. I have talked to numerous people who were and are subscribers. No one is bothered by the idea of loosing the resource boost. Everyone understands that loosing it means a more balanced game.

[omega four]

I think casual gamers are the largest gaming demographic. Whether they're the largest gaming demographic of PS2 remains to be seen.

Yes, casual gamers can participate with serious, hardcore gamers on strategy but that's usually a coincidence more than anything else. Just because I help the Enclave, GOKU, AACE or any of the Mattherson outfits cap a base doesn't mean I was privy to their war council strategy sessions. It just means I showed up to fight (via instant action or not) were they were to earn XPs and certs.

I play games for FUN. I leave the serious strategizing for my career and making real world money.

Originally Posted by Crator

You make it sound like all players are casual. Or that casual players can't participate along with the other that are doing the strategic part. Or that casual players can't get interested enough to start participating in the strategic part. Strategy is the part that gets you hooked into the game hardcore btw.

[GeoGnome]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Not going to comment on boosts, sorry.

What do you think of infantry, ground, and air all using the same resource?

Even 1 resource, if some people are allowed more than others, the whole system is slighted towards the people who pay for more resources than the people who don't... unless your talking about simply boosting the Earning power. That is to say that the person who has the boost contributes to the grand amount that the army can have, but does not contribute to the amount that they can pull.

If it is about the amount of resources one person can pull: This is an unfair advantage, and means that the resource system is partially supported by real money.

The logic of that is inescapable.

[omega four]

While I agree that the logic you articulated is inescapable, it still doesn't stop many gamers from being unable to see it in the first place.

The fact is the easiest way for-profit companies like SOE to make money is to offer advantages to winning to those who are willing to pay for it.

Whether some are willing to admit it or not, SOE is farming most PS2 gamers in some way or another. Even those gamers who pay nothing to SOE are fulfilling SOE's master plan by being served up as "cannon fodder" to those gamers who did pay SOE for a winning advantage.

Originally Posted by GeoGnome

Even 1 resource, if some people are allowed more than others, the whole system is slighted towards the people who pay for more resources than the people who don't... unless your talking about simply boosting the Earning power. That is to say that the person who has the boost contributes to the grand amount that the army can have, but does not contribute to the amount that they can pull.

If it is about the amount of resources one person can pull: This is an unfair advantage, and means that the resource system is partially supported by real money.

The logic of that is inescapable.

[GeoGnome]

Originally Posted by omega four

While I agree that the logic you articulated is inescapable, it still doesn't stop many gamers from being unable to see it in the first place.

The fact is the easiest way for-profit companies like SOE to make money is to offer advantages to winning to those who are willing to pay for it.

Whether some are willing to admit it or not, SOE is farming most PS2 gamers in some way or another. Even those gamers who pay nothing to SOE are fulfilling SOE's master plan by being served up as "cannon fodder" to those gamers who did pay SOE for a winning advantage.

Okay... that is great and all, but how does that invalidate anything?

SOE can make money without being bastards and sabotaging themselves, and the resource boosts, when implemented really did not matter. No one in their right mind bought their membership or their boost because it granted resources... Because again, the resource system did not matter.

For the most part it -still- doesn't matter, but the manufactured hysteria that is GU11, has brought a good point to light. And anything they would do to correct the system in place would be undermined by the continued existence of these boosts. So, this comes down to: Does SOE want to make a breathtakingly idiotic decision, or do they want to make a system that will work.

People who simply say: "Oh, they are a for profit company, so they will exploit your every dollar" really just aren't looking at the big picture. SOE isn't bloody Haliburton, they don't ignore people to make money, even when it kills people... they are a game development company, that is tasked with creating a product, that is powered by the illusion that the long term consumers, the players of their game, have some kind of power over development. It is actively working against their interest to ignore this. Especially when they are talking about something that again, no one gives a flying fornication about, and most people have said they would willingly give up, because they realize the long term ramifications.

[omega four]

Have you ever worked for a Japanese multinational corporation? I have. I know better than most about their thought processes when it comes to corporate hierarchy and decisions based on cost-benefit analyses.

SOE reports to Sony. SOE is beholden to Sony, who is in turn beholden to its shareholders. That means both companies live quarter to quarter on financial earnings reports.

Sony, and in turn SOE, are profit-driven companies that will do whatever it takes to make money. You can believe that SOE will make decisions based on what's fair and right for its gamers. But I know better.

I also know that many PS2 gamers don't realize that they're being farmed by SOE. And even if they did (like myself), they really don't care so long as they feel they're getting their money's worth.

Originally Posted by GeoGnome

Okay... that is great and all, but how does that invalidate anything?

SOE can make money without being bastards and sabotaging themselves, and the resource boosts, when implemented really did not matter. No one in their right mind bought their membership or their boost because it granted resources... Because again, the resource system did not matter.

For the most part it -still- doesn't matter, but the manufactured hysteria that is GU11, has brought a good point to light. And anything they would do to correct the system in place would be undermined by the continued existence of these boosts. So, this comes down to: Does SOE want to make a breathtakingly idiotic decision, or do they want to make a system that will work.

People who simply say: "Oh, they are a for profit company, so they will exploit your every dollar" really just aren't looking at the big picture. SOE isn't bloody Haliburton, they don't ignore people to make money, even when it kills people... they are a game development company, that is tasked with creating a product, that is powered by the illusion that the long term consumers, the players of their game, have some kind of power over development. It is actively working against their interest to ignore this. Especially when they are talking about something that again, no one gives a flying fornication about, and most people have said they would willingly give up, because they realize the long term ramifications.

[Crator]

Originally Posted by omega four

I also know that many PS2 gamers don't realize that they're being farmed by SOE. And even if they did (like myself), they really don't care so long as they feel they're getting their money's worth.

Can you define farmed? I don't think I am being farmed. I never once bought station cash. I've had a monthly membership which gave me SC.

I feel more farmed from paying a monthly sub for PS1 for as long as I did more then I feel farmed for paying a sub for PS2. At least I can discontinue my sub and still play PS2 if I want.

What others do with their money (if they want to throw it at the game) is their problem.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by Crator

Can you define farmed? I don't think I am being farmed. I never once bought station cash. I've had a monthly membership which gave me SC.

I'm not being farmed for sure. I do give SOE money fairly regularly, but I feel Planetside 2 is worth it. I get days of enjoyment from this game. Not minutes or hours... DAYS. You can see my stats of played time in my signature. For the amount of enjoyment I get out of this game compared to other sources of entertainment... I am totally getting my monies worth. Better than buying these 10-15 hour games that cost $50-60 a pop and then leaving you wanting another new game for another $50-60 that will last another 10-15 hours if you are lucky.

[diLLa]

I wouldn't say it's pay to win. It might be on an individual level, but in this game the win condition is faction-wide. Assuming that the amount of subs on all the 3 factions is pretty much even, then it's balanced out, making it not pay to win.