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2013-07-11, 02:09 PM | [Ignore Me] #31 | |||
Second Lieutenant
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It was always an issue. |
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2013-07-11, 02:14 PM | [Ignore Me] #32 | |||
Second Lieutenant
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Even on Indar an attack on a weak front can be halted thanks to well placed chokepoints. Esamir and Amerish need the lattice and then when we have a continental lattice system the warpgates will provide very good chokepoints, especially on the battle islands. Should be a problem that kind of works itself out. I would rather the devs keep working on this new content and building spawn mechanics that work with a lattice system and implement restrictions to prevent hopping around the lanes rather than them work on a temporary fix for an issue with the old hex system. |
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2013-07-11, 02:28 PM | [Ignore Me] #33 | ||
Master Sergeant
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You make good points wasdie.
I still think I should be able to spawn into a battles that is smaller then 12v12 and within 1 players of being balanced instantly. This would let small battles form and frontlines being defendable from ghost caps by people like me who look at the map. I also think I should always be able to spawn at the closest tower, since the closest air terminal spawn is often useless - I'm better off going to the warp gate then spending 2 minutes running to the aircraft terminal from the Tech plant spawn - just let me grab my ESF from a nearby tower quickly. I also think sunderers need to be more limited in terms of spawning instead of allowing unlimited spawns instantly. |
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2013-07-11, 02:55 PM | [Ignore Me] #34 | ||
Private
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It's nice to know you are actually working on this. I hate when my outfit leader sneaks up behind a sunderer then yells at us all to squad deploy simultaneously; totally cheesing the sunderer and it's occupants.
I mean god damn it is so unsporting. It would also be nice to see these changes maybe make galaxies not redundant. |
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2013-07-11, 05:59 PM | [Ignore Me] #36 | ||
I'm going to say this:
Continental Commander with an ability to define where reinforcements are needed would be a good alternative solution to the existing logistical extreme freedom. P.S. The extreme, which I don't really see, since the main mean of travel in PS1, Mozzie, was available at any facility, didn't cost resources and had very small cooldown timer. An ESF in PS2, on the other hand, doesn't fit the description, so limiting the spawn mechanics may have negative effect on defensive side of the game, meaning, the amount of Effort Required will overwhelm the amount of Care for players. Last edited by NewSith; 2013-07-11 at 06:00 PM. |
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2013-07-11, 06:23 PM | [Ignore Me] #37 | ||
Contributor PlanetSide 2
Game Designer |
Perhaps "throttle" wasn't the right word. Feel free to interpret that word as "some form of limited-use mechanism that discourages abuse of large groups." And feel free to offer suggestions. Goal is stabilizing the fronts and trending towards population equilibrium along a front.
Outfits of course will intentionally bypass that because that's a clear and obvious way to gain an edge. Nothing really stops one person from going to an area, putting down a spawn beacon and having the rest come in, and that's what organized groups will do. For moving large groups transport vehicles should be the most efficient solution and the preferred method of front-shifting. That's where a resource cost for long-distance spawning makes a lot of sense, because the resource cost of one vehicle is a lot cheaper than a spawn cost being paid by an entire squad. And you can't guarantee that everyone in the squad will be able to pay that cost, thus transport vehicle becomes your most reliable and efficient solution of moving a large group. And that transport vehicle takes time to move, can be spotted, and can be destroyed. That adds depth and reduces the volatility. So if you want to go against the grain and shift fronts en masse you do so with a tradeoff. I think that's the general idea of how to correctly solve the problem, but it has it's challenges. I think it could solve the mechanical problem quite well but doing so without making the game more confusing is difficult. Also making it work for large organized groups without screwing over the casual/solo player is essential. |
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2013-07-12, 02:54 AM | [Ignore Me] #38 | ||
glad to see your trying to put some thought back into the game Malorn, I think the instant gratifcation (as in just hopping all over the planet via spawn system without needing to do any travelling) is hurting the game.
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"Don't matter who did what to who at this point. Fact is, we went to war, and now there ain't no going back. I mean shit, it's what war is, you know? Once you in it, you in it! If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie. But we gotta fight. " Slim Charles aka Tallman - The Wire BRTD Mumble Server powered by Gamercomms |
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2013-07-12, 03:07 AM | [Ignore Me] #39 | |||
Contributor Lieutenant Colonel
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For example (numbers are made up and arbitrary) a squad that consists of two people has no penalty on their beacon timer whereas a squad of three has a 3 second penalty and a squad of 12 has a 30 second penalty on their beacon timer. A fully certed SL can drop the penalty to 1 second per squad member. It stills gives the potential for one solid drop as the timer penalty is not in effect, but seeing as each member of the squad that is dropping into a contested area is placed in a potentially precarious position (I don't know how many people I've shot who were just hopping out of a drop pod but in most every instance they were extremely vulnerable(Also, sorry to all the BR 1's I've killed, if I knew you were new I would have given you a running start)). If a squad wants to move to another front in a more cohesive and 'safe' manner than Gals or Sundies would be a much more viable option. Also, as for squad deploys costing resources; I think I personally would just enact a 'minimum resource limit' that platoon members can not dip under in the event that a squad drop is needed, mostly invalidating the direct impediment that the proposed idea presents. I can always get more resources, I can't always get 30 seconds (or more) on a cap timer that's going south and needs to be cleaned up ASAP. |
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2013-07-15, 04:16 AM | [Ignore Me] #40 | |||
Sergeant
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With regards to giving outfits an edge, I go back to my suggestion from beta to remove cooldown from vehicles alltogether and limit their availability by resource cost alone. A coordinated outfit can pool resources as they need it, while the random pubbie will most likely waste them on pointless stuff that blows up afer a minute or two. Add higher resource costs across the board, done. That would create some WW1esque front-lines where the random footsoldiers blaze through their resources to die a pointless death, but when coordinated forces arrive they have the firepower to accomplish what needs to be done. I think we can take resource pooling quite literally, too, why not have some kind of a "resource pool" where I can put it my resources and make them available to the rest of the outfit? Most important is to make the world resource starved, because only then all this will matter and coordination will retain an inherent edge. With the endless supply we have now there is little point in forming an outfit at all, apart from shooting with friends. I don't think it's possible to make outfits more desireable without "hurting" the random casual. I mean, being in an outfit is or should be the exact opposite of being a random casual. You have to put a load of incentive under a casual's ass to stop being casual and join an outfit. Nothing is a bigger incentive than being shit at the game and the will to change that. Last edited by raw; 2013-07-15 at 04:30 AM. |
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2013-07-15, 04:53 AM | [Ignore Me] #41 | |||
Master Sergeant
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I think there are alot of players who can see the map and the info it has to determine good places to spawn and assets to grab, but they are being limited. I also don't see the big outfit thing as being an issue. In my experience large outfits mass players, then spend most of their time waiting and camping spawn rooms. If outfits were really organized half of those players would hit redeploy and would spread out to take multiple territories, but they don't - they just sit there and "wait for the points". Also at every large base defenders should be able to deploy there to defend or even grab assets. There is no reason why I shouldn't be able to redeploy from the warp gate to Allatum biolab at will. My team has that asset, let me use it. Where battles are going on I think it would be a good idea to throttle mass deployment to defend, but I think it would be more fun for everyone if players could deploy to border skirmishes to defend if the defenders are outnumbered by 50% or more - be more fun for everyone to be able to defend and have people to fight. |
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2013-07-15, 04:58 AM | [Ignore Me] #42 | |||
Sergeant
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2013-07-15, 10:53 AM | [Ignore Me] #43 | |||
Sergeant Major
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Reduce all this drop pod nonsene to a minimum and make transportation more meaningful. Drop pods should be a strategic element and not something you can do every 3 minutes if you feel like it. But I guess if you stop attackers from droping right ontop of bases and towers, where they should NOT be, then that's a start at least. Last edited by BlazingSun; 2013-07-15 at 10:54 AM. |
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2013-07-15, 11:51 AM | [Ignore Me] #44 | |||
Like it or not travel time is very important to these types of games. That said they could put in place something similar to the matrix system of PS1, your PL or SL goes to a base and manually sets that to be your special recall point.
__________________
"Don't matter who did what to who at this point. Fact is, we went to war, and now there ain't no going back. I mean shit, it's what war is, you know? Once you in it, you in it! If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie. But we gotta fight. " Slim Charles aka Tallman - The Wire BRTD Mumble Server powered by Gamercomms |
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2013-07-15, 12:41 PM | [Ignore Me] #45 | ||
Corporal
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Players spawn into towers, biolabs, and to a lesser extent amp stations because they are looking for a fight, and those facilities are defensible. Zerging and ghost capping empty bases is boring. In fact zerging is boring, there is no tension at all.
To make my point, let's look at what isn't worth my time; -Tech plants- by the time of any response, the opposition has downed the shields, setup a sundy surrounded by repair sundies and logged in an engy alt to rep the shields. Sundies spawn faster then base spawns, then you have a huge slog to get there since you can't use the laughably bad and harasser camped tunnels. Making the only "defense" the banana room and scu. -small bases are almost to a base , laughably bad, and indefensible, only good for shield heroing, except the ones with banana rooms. Terran crash site on esamir being the best example of terrible with the capture point being miles away and the spawn is not even in the same territory. SoE is afraid of any sort of fighting that might interrupt zerging and done it's utmost to nerf defending as far a possible and is doing so yet again, but what are you doing to promote fighting? People logout of this game because there are few fights and nothing to do. How about some spawns inside buildings near cap points where tanks can't spam players into jelly so real fighting happens? How about a cloaked ams so a greater attacking force isn't despawned out of the territory by c4 podding and shotgun fairies? So a defending force can have a spawn outside a spawn room for more then 30 seconds? |
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