News: Roadmap Resource Revamp & Continental Lattice Updated - Page 5

EvilNinjadude · 2013-07-20, 03:14 PM

@Mordelicius It's been stated that attackers get resources via adjacent friendly territories.

@Mastachief Sounds like ANT modules for now.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-07-20, 04:13 PM

Attackers shouldnt be fed a steady stream of resources. In this instance I think the devs are fucking up again. Attackers should have to bring resources with them and be susceptibe to becoming resource starved just like the defenders.

Johnjohns · 2013-07-20, 04:14 PM

I like this a lot. Really going to make large sieges a lot more fun.

Isokon · 2013-07-20, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

Attackers shouldnt be fed a steady stream of resources. In this instance I think the devs are fucking up again. Attackers should have to bring resources with them and be susceptibe to becoming resource starved just like the defenders.

Originally Posted by Malorn

Attackers are supplied by adjacent linked friendly facilities. If none then income is zero.

Assuming those adjacent bases also lose power for supplying the attackers, this means you can actually starve them by intercepting their transports.

GeoGnome · 2013-07-20, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Fenrys

What happens when 2 factions pile into the same warpgate on Hossin via 2 different warpgates on some other continent? For example, what if VS own one warpgate on Indar and NC own the other, and both faction pile though into the same warpgate on Hossin?

Will there be two separate, shielded staging areas with a control point between them? Will the continent warping trip be one way if your faction does not control the gate on the other side?

My understanding, is that you will have to Take the warpgate, like take points and seize it. Once you take it, I imagine you'll have the option to warp to the opposing warpgate and take it. Kind of like teleporters in biolabs.

Mastachief · 2013-07-20, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by EvilNinjadude

@Mastachief Sounds like ANT modules for now.

Well that'll screw the pooch. Need nanites to continue your farm? zerg 30 ANT module tanks at you farms silo.

The ps1 ANT was un armed and weak it really needed an escort to do its jump in a contested base, this required empire co-op (something this game current neither has or encourages.) To allow armed ANTs is to cater to solo players yet again and ruin a concept that was perfect.

Don't get me wrong i love most of the proposals but i still need to point out massive flaws imo.

Isokon · 2013-07-20, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Mastachief

Well that'll screw the pooch. Need nanites to continue your farm? zerg 30 ANT module tanks at you farms silo.

The ps1 ANT was un armed and weak it really needed an escort to do its jump in a contested base, this required empire co-op (something this game current neither has or encourages.) To allow armed ANTs is to cater to solo players yet again and ruin a concept that was perfect.

Don't get me wrong i love most of the proposals but i still need to point out massive flaws imo.

I would not cry foul, yet. They could make the ANT modules disable all weaponry and make the amount of energy it can transport depend on the kind of vehicle it's on.
There are a couple of other factors (time it takes to transfer the energy between vehicle and base? Possible to have multiple vehicles refill at the same time?), thus I'd go with "potential flaw" until we know more details.

**Malorn** · 2013-07-20, 05:35 PM

Whether it is a module, what can equip the module, or whether it is a standalone vehicle is something we'd like your feedback on.

Can you offer up some good uses of an ANT beyond a space truck? We want all the vehicles to have a well defined role and to be fun. Being a space trucker doesn't seem like it is worth the trouble or worth investing in...what other cool uses do you think the ANT and its power mechanic might bring to make it an interesting and fun vehicle to invest in?

Calista · 2013-07-20, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Whether it is a module, what can equip the module, or whether it is a standalone vehicle is something we'd like your feedback on.

Can you offer up some good uses of an ANT beyond a space truck? We want all the vehicles to have a well defined role and to be fun. Being a space trucker doesn't seem like it is worth the trouble or worth investing in...what other cool uses do you think the ANT and its power mechanic might bring to make it an interesting and fun vehicle to invest in?

Would be a good time to introduce the Deliverer (appropriate name too) with an ANT variant that had no weapons. Or just call the ANT a Deliverer that has weapons based variants.

Carbon Copied · 2013-07-20, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Whether it is a module, what can equip the module, or whether it is a standalone vehicle is something we'd like your feedback on.

Can you offer up some good uses of an ANT beyond a space truck? We want all the vehicles to have a well defined role and to be fun. Being a space trucker doesn't seem like it is worth the trouble or worth investing in...what other cool uses do you think the ANT and its power mechanic might bring to make it an interesting and fun vehicle to invest in?

I'd like to see the Sunderer and ANT become more defined - bolting on the modules to Sunderer I understand was easier and less time consuming but if the ANT is an unarmed support vehicle then surely it would make sense for the repair and re-supply ammo modules to move over to that to make it a more defined support vehicle and the Sunderer taking up a more defined role of land troop mover rather than "jack of all trades" wagon.

The Sunderer in my view should be the base smasher so things like the shield diffuser, weapons and composites etc. belong there - but it's over used for too many different roles (albeit mainly spawn deploy racing). I mean in a convoy it's not obvious to pick out one Sundy from the next (i.e receive order "go for the spawn Sunderer" and there's 10 down there) it's a separate issue but I'd like to see something like:

AMS - Singular, non troop transport, high value target fulfills one role - easily identifiable from all other support vehicle types.
Sunderer - Troop mover, base and line smasher - you see it you know it's going to hit hard somewhere and have a lot of problems coming out of it.
ANT - Fills support roles of base power, but equally importantly supports a convoy outside catering to ammo and repair supplies (separate modules) - to a degree has to get involved with the fight to keep things going not just linger at the rear and hope to get through.

Each have their own support roles to play by creating more vehicles and spreading what they do; players should have to put abit more thought into what they're pulling to support the push - if the zerg or ops outfit pull too much of one type then it fails so the ops leaders get their management roles, equally players can start to become specialists in what they're pulling; by that I mean you get the "go to guy" if you need a specific Sunderer config or the "go to guy" for ANT runs. This doesn't alienate anyone from generically pulling but just should make them consider what they're pulling more carefully with what is rolling out the garage around them.

Ragnafrak · 2013-07-20, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Whether it is a module, what can equip the module, or whether it is a standalone vehicle is something we'd like your feedback on.

Can you offer up some good uses of an ANT beyond a space truck? We want all the vehicles to have a well defined role and to be fun. Being a space trucker doesn't seem like it is worth the trouble or worth investing in...what other cool uses do you think the ANT and its power mechanic might bring to make it an interesting and fun vehicle to invest in?

5 reasons why I think that the ANT should be its own separate vehicle.

1. Having a unique silhouette allows for instant priority objective recognition
2. Being a separate vehicle does not further dilute the sunderer's already (un)reasonably diverse array of roles.
3. Being a separate vehicle allows for having a relatively low resource cost to help facilitate its use.
4. Being not intended as just another passenger or combat vehicle, it does not need guns nor gunners (lore-wise, this could be to avoid explosions near the power source), making a protective force outside of itself a necessity rather than an option.
5. Being unique allows for it to have unique hill-climbing abilities for traversing more difficult terrain, possibly having to temporarily leave protectors a short distance behind, or necessitating air-support (possibly something a galaxy could be good at!). This would also allow for creative placement of resource nodes.

In short- Making the ANT its own separate vehicle allows for design opportunities that would not be possible otherwise.

Obstruction · 2013-07-20, 07:14 PM

AMS - Singular, non troop transport, high value target fulfills one role - easily identifiable from all other support vehicle types.
Sunderer - Troop mover, base and line smasher - you see it you know it's going to hit hard somewhere and have a lot of problems coming out of it.
ANT - Fills support roles of base power, but equally importantly supports a convoy outside catering to ammo and repair supplies (separate modules) - to a degree has to get involved with the fight to keep things going not just linger at the rear and hope to get through.

i agree, i think divorcing the AMS from the sunderer loadout is an excellent plan, and leaves lots of room to improve and rework the sunderer as an APC, support vehicle, and spacetruck. and the cert refund wouldn't be too stressful since it's a cheap module anyway.

separating the support functions may not be the best plan though. and designing and implementing so many new vehicles may not be either.

what i would do, is make the AMS and ANT a sort of sunderer add on. make it a deployable module that you pick up after you spawn your sundie, and drop off when you get where you're going. the ANT is simple. the load takes up 6 seats and the ANT station you deliver to simply eats the whole damn truck when you drive into it.

the AMS, then, could be a load unit, also filling 6 seats, that is nanite constructed anywhere a sundie could have deployed in the past. it could be like an extra small spawn building that has a small shielded area where soldiers can spawn and safely use a terminal, jump lift up to a top platform with air cover, and man articulated weapons not unlike sundie gun positions F2 and F3 and/or a single destructible/repairable manned base turret.

however, unlike a spawn building, it is a destructible unit. and unlike a deployed sundie, it can't pick up and move after it's been deployed. although the sunderer that deployed it is free to engage in combat, ferry troops that spawn at the module, or return to a rear base for an ANT run or to prepare to load another AMS when that one is destroyed or times out. timers could work the same as currently deployed sundies, just man the turret to reset the 20 minute timer, or have the owner load another AMS unit to start the despawn timeout, or change ownership. same rules would apply with owner logout or continent change as with current deployed sundies.

what you do to facilitate this loading process is place specific, shielded, drive thru stations on the map that load 6 infantry positions with either AMS or ANT module "load placeholders." this way there's no obvious external change to the vehicle model that screams "suicide air strike this one and then trololol," but still makes it a juicy target, as it appears to be a 7/12 or 10/12 sundie. a juicy target that could also have 4 AA MAX units inside, waiting to clown car the Air Wing that spots it.

loading at a facility also provides a "behind enemy lines" scenario where a small group can attempt to interfere with loading, while escort groups will oppose them by moving in ahead of a group of potential ANTs and AMSs to secure the area.

this way AMS and ANT will be a valuable target among vehicles in a convoy but not easily distinguishable from the escort APC sundie loaded with troops, nor the repair and ammo sundies supplying the armor unit and harasser escorts.

i think this solution presents the easiest transition for the design team, relies almost entirely on existing code mechanics, and provides for interesting strategy elements from both sides of the conflict.

this turned out to be a long concept description, so i'll bullet point it as well.

divorce AMS unit from sunderer loadout
AMS and ANT units "load" into seats 6-12 for transport in any spawned sunderer
AMS is a nanite constructed mini spawn building that a sunderer deploys and drives away from
AMS "building" is a destructible, repairable unit that has armaments and infantry shield doors but cannot move
ANT unit is unloaded at a receptacle in a destination base, possibly consuming the delivering sunderer as well
strategy elements in this design include defending or blockading loading stations, harassing or escorting convoys, and "decoy" support sunderers that actually contain 7/12 live units
benefit to this solution is ease of implementation, primarily using existing code mechanics and art assets.

Lonehunter · 2013-07-20, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

what other cool uses do you think the ANT and its power mechanic might bring to make it an interesting and fun vehicle to invest in?

I think an "ANT" brings back the discussion of a mobile spawner for small vehicles. I can imagine something like an ANT-XT that is larger then a sundy and consumes power for people to spawn ATVs, Harassers, and Lightnings.

Maybe an Armored Floating Zeppelin that consumes power to repair and rearm ESFs? Maybe a floating ship that spawns ESFs by blasting them out of a launch bay?

EDIT: ANT could have some support roles. Like a cloak field bubble that runs off the power juice, or a force bubble that reduces projectile damage for allies.

camycamera · 2013-07-20, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Mordelicius

- Power Supply Lines sound great. I like they are adding logistics now.

Drawback: I expect a rise in vehicle team killing with this. They need to buff up the grief report system in anticipation of this.
Vehicles need ownership tag and kill tag so we know who's doing the shenanigans.

I see vehicles blocking paths to the charging/dumping station to players alts being abused to add to power drain.

nah, i wouldn't think it would do that. it hardly happens, at least to me anyway. and i doubt "those" people wouldn't end up driving the ANT anyway, organised squads would.

Drawback2: As some would say, how do attackers get their resources if they are in an unfriendly hex? I fear this could turn into Defenseside, where players only go on defense to get their resources.

- Continent Lattice (current design). I'm wondering if the spread out population is enough with the added continent + BI. So, are we expecting more server mergers?

probably.

Drawback: Home base is bad. Forcing players to play in certain continent is a terrible design. Give us an alternative Warpgate "locking" mechanism that is player-driven. I've suggested before a mechanism of pushing WGs in a WG-BI-WG line (where the BI WG is only activated when a WG is captured, thereby "pushed" into the BIWG). If WG has been pushed twice, it becomes "locked". This removes the necessity for a locked, Dev mandated "Home Base".

Drawback 2: No rotation? Allow Home base rotation. Many players prefer Indar, such as myself. Esamir and Amerish have their fans as well. Simply locking a continent to a faction is inane. Rotate them like every 4-6 months.

once we get more maps i bet we will see sanctuaries. sanctuaries from PS1 are essentially little home bases for empires, and people could use them to go to which continents they want by going through a warpgate.once it is in, there would be no need for warpgate rotation, because it would be more player driven.

so, yeah.

Rahabib · 2013-07-20, 07:44 PM

Well it looks like this is the road were taking. I think it should be on sunderers only, and the module replaces the ams slot. You can either deploy troops or deploy resources. however I think you need to keep the weapons on the sunderer. you still need at least one other person to help make the sunderer defensive anyhow.