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2013-01-12, 11:50 AM
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[Ignore Me] #1 | ||
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Private
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Um, maybe this should be moved to the Ideas section now?
**Updated post based on replies.** Basically -- I think ESFs give one person too much power as it currently stands, and I'm mainly a pilot on Miller. I made this after I was bored so I watched another Mosquito guy flying on Twitch. His gameplay was a horribly dull but supremely successful farm of NC in pretty much any location he was at. I never saw him die once except for when he crashed... he killed way over fourty people without a scratch. It was too much. Bunch of other stuff is in too. Suggestions Dynamic XP. - If a weapon like the Rocket Pod is being exploited, lower the XP gained from killing certain target types with them. I.e; infantry killed with pods grants you less XP than infantry killed with the main cannon. Dynamic XP could reward decent play as opposed to spammy behaviour. There could even be more XP rewarded for people flying fast and close to the ground, or upside down to highlight better skill or behaviour. No XP for Repairing Yourself. - Nobody I know wants this. Repairing Yourself. - Its too cheap that an ESF can be repaired in seconds. The same goes for other vehicles. Maybe slow the repair rate down? You could make it so that every time you take over __% damage you loose _% off the total health permanently, meaning that your ESF gets weaker over time as you constantly repair it? That could stop the self-repair spam. A2A Missiles. - Make it so we have to maintain a tight CoF on the target in order to keep the lock. This is more interesting and dynamic than the FaF we have now. Rocket Pod Rocket Speed. - Rockets could be slower or build up speed before they fully ignite to encourage actual aiming/piloting. It would also lower their effectiveness against aircraft which is good because the Pods aren't meant to be used against other ESFs. Didn't a previous patch back in Beta have more of an acceleration thing with the rockets like this? Rocket Pod Rocket Dynamic CoF. - Maybe a dynamic CoF could be used so that the more you are turning the higher the CoF you have. This is only to stop pilots using them against other ESFs as much. If you want a pod that can hurt other aircraft you should be using A2A not A2G. Longer Rearming Time. - It is far too easy to fully rearm all your rockets. Nothing else in the game, almost, can fill its ammo back up so easily. We desperately need to eliminate the rocket spam and I think that if pilots want rockets they should learn to use them more sparingly and efficiently. The ease of rearming grants you too much power too quickly. Tanks can't just completely rearm inside minutes so why should one man aircraft? The amount of power you get with ammo certs and these fast reloading times is over the top in my opinion. Less Ammo For Rocket Pods. - Less is more. Make us pilots work to get kills. Pilots should be far more careful with their rockets, and be encouraged to use their "primary" cannon more often. If something is a secondary weapon it should have a secondary role. Accel/Decel. - I think ESFs should have slower initial accel so that pilots are less likely to hover-farm hover-spam doorways, as they would not be able to just fly-stop-spam-escape so easily. - I also think slower decel would encourage dogfighting rather than slow turnfighting and reduce the almost FPS-like stop-aim-shoot. Too often I see aircraft stalling so that their turning (aiming) radius is shorter, so that they may shoot the enemy faster. - Giving ESFs the ability to insta-stop makes them too effective and easy to control. They should be more like normal fighters. Flak. - Make flak rattle an ESF more. Make it harder to control when under heavy flak fire, kind of like a flinching mechanic. Do not overdo it like explosions though. This would add a small portion of challenge for us and make it more interesting. Spotting change. - Remove spotted infantry but keep spotted vehicles. Also make it so when any friendly vehicles and infantry are within your line of sight that they are instantly spotted for you and you only. As a pilot I know that this would help tremendously in keeping aircraft off of general players and pitching them against other air and vehicles which is where they should be. Other Suggestions Increase the Speed. - They feel too much like weird helicopters at the moment and are less satisfying to fly than in Beta. Dual Fire. - After the above changes, make it so we can fire the primary cannon and the secondary pods at the same time. Not being able to do this is weird and would be unnecessary if the secondaries were balanced to begin with. Perhaps this could be certed into somehow as to avoid any scope upgrade problems. Additional Rocket Changes - Make them more powerful against infantry. Having to fire dozens of rockets against a single HA is stupid and feels wrong. This change must be in addition to the Less Ammo change and the Longer Rearm Time change, as well as the Rocket Splash change. MAX AA - This is strictly an immersion peeve: I think the AA MAX is really overpowered for its size. That small gun it has should not be so effective against a large vehicle as an ESF. Just look at it... its pathetic. I can understand a large turret AA gun messing my aircraft up but that punny MAX AA gun is too small. Maybe make the MAX AA ability a homing missile instead? The MAX should be effective, but that tiny AA cannon it has weirds me out. Friendly Air Collision. - This really needs fixing somehow. Other people crash into me on airpads and in the air far too often, just as I crash into them in the air too. Not sure what to suggest here. You might think its a minor annoyance but it seems to happen all the time. I suppose I just have to "deal with it" but if there was a way to smooth it out... Last edited by Legolas; 2013-01-12 at 04:22 PM. |
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2013-01-12, 12:11 PM
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[Ignore Me] #2 | ||
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Sergeant
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OK, no.......just no...... i disagree with pretty much every point here. Fuel might be fun, but i dont think its needed seeing as you have to return to bases to rearm anyways.
- Medics can heal themselves (like use your ability). - How does a larger CoF help in making peole work for their aim? a CoF makes it impossible to aim. plus they allready did this. - Same goes with splash radius.... this has been reduced allready aswell. - Spotted infantry were removed in previous patches, but it was annoying as hell. - CoF on A2A i actually agree on. - If you want increased speed invest in the racer airframe. If you want to go and nerf something in the air do the liberators (even though i dont think they deserve a nerf either). ESF's had a large nerf round in the last patch. I am a reaver pilot and yes my k/d is "high", but my xp/hour isnt better if i AI max in an infantry battle or fly my A2G reaver. Plus with the dynamic xp coming my xp/hour as A2G will drop even more seeing as the spawn camping will be pretty much useless.
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2013-01-12, 12:26 PM
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[Ignore Me] #4 | ||
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Major
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I don't believe you should get ANY experience for repairing your own vehicle. It's just stupid as you are doing it for yourself to begin with.
If legolas' repair idea isn't good, then nerf the crap out of repair times. Make it four to six times longer for tanks, esfs and libs. It should take a long time to be able to quickly bring that power back. |
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2013-01-12, 12:31 PM
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[Ignore Me] #5 | |||
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Sergeant
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You definitely don't need decreased exp for infantry kills. If they get killed by an ESF it's mostly because their position is entirely without consideration for air threats. Not really much different from getting killed by a tank on the open field. Seriously, anyone still hating on ESF A2G abilities never gets in a plane and just can't be bothered to take air into consideration at all, ever. They just want to play in their little bubble. I play both sides and seriously, if you die to A2G ESFs you made a fatal mistake, it happens. Your mistake, not the fault of game balance. If you constantly die to A2G ESFs you're a moron. About the repair thing ... I'm fine with longer repair times, but it's just so irrelevant to almost anything. ESFs constantly need to repair, but there will always be new ones to take their place. Libs only need to repair if there's an AA army underneath them and in that event they probably won't return (unless with more libs). Last edited by SeraphC; 2013-01-12 at 12:40 PM. |
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2013-01-12, 12:42 PM
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[Ignore Me] #6 | ||
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Contributor First Sergeant
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+1's to:
-XP shouldn't be gained from repairing your own vehicle. -requiring a tighter CoF, or actually requiring the reticle be placed on the target to gain lock on A2A missiles. -rocket splash, with focus on AV damage. But then, wasn't the last patch a nerf to AI damage already? -1's to: -less XP for infantry. I almost exclusively run A2A, but it is not unusual for me to use rotary cannon to gun down infantry. If anyone thinks doing so is extremely easy, they should give it a try first. But I understood your intent to be mainly rocket pods farming infantry...? -less ammo and longer rearm times for rocket pods. The couple of times I have run them, I didn't think they were the OP ray gun everyone has made them out to be. But then, I have only run them post-patch and mainly used them as AV. I have been killed many times by rocket pod barrages tho...very spammy and frustrating. *as a side note, I love the rocket pod farmers that complain when I take them down with an A2A missile. Loud complaints and angry tells especially from higher BR players. Let's me know I'm doing my job. |
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2013-01-12, 12:44 PM
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[Ignore Me] #7 | ||
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Contributor First Lieutenant
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Sorry i can not agree, with you.I fly Libs sometimes, and i just can not agree to your suggestions.
I think that would change the balance to unfair/wrong. AA is getting buffed and its hard even now ! 3 Maxes shredder your lib to pieces ... And breaker rockets are still very strong, just for example. so no.
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2013-01-12, 12:51 PM
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[Ignore Me] #8 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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Contributor Brigadier General
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2013-01-12, 12:59 PM
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[Ignore Me] #9 | ||
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Corporal
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Nice set of changes. I wouldn't find myself in a frothing internet rage if these were implemented. A few things though...
- No exp for repairing yourself, if implemented, should also apply to ground vehicles. This would make secondary gunning more popular. It would also ignite rioting amongst pilots of all vehicles. It would fall in line with the no-exp for healing self that medics have currently (medics CAN heal themselves with their area heal ability.) - Repair maximum would be a very hard sell and I personally don't like the concept. Simply slowing the repair rate for all vehicles would be better. As it is now, low HP vehicles (including aircraft) repair way too fast. - The fuel seems a bit unnecessary though and I don't really see how it would change anything, assuming fuel is replenished with munitions. If fuel isn't replenished, then you punish really careful pilots. Perhaps it replenishes super duper slow? I don't know, this doesn't really serve any purpose. - Dual fire might be difficult with scopes on your weapons. Perhaps scopes could be for the aircraft as a whole and not tied to weapons at all. Push Z, middle-mouse-button, or some-such to activate scope. Can't see this working otherwise. - I would like to see your rocket-pod into AV-rocket-pod changes be even more drastic, making them into a truly dedicated AV weapon choice. In exchange add a dedicated AI-rocket-pod designed with area spammage in mind (either a few large-splash, accurate rockets or lots of small-splash, inaccurate rockets.) I would also like to see a second dedicated AV weapon in the form of a guided missile (which would be balanced by a medium lock-range and longish lock-time.) - I agree the MAX AA flack seems a bit odd given the size of their weapons. That is solely an immersion thing though. Changing them to missiles is a severe nerf considering the abundance of ways to neuter such. Instead make MAX AA be heavy caliber anti-air guns. You know, make them shoot bullets instead of explosive flack rounds. All you would need to do is change the hit animation and hit sounds (the flack explosion) into something less dramatic. You could even say its still a nerf because they actually need to hit their target instead of just getting close enough. Adjustments could always be made to bullet speed and such if necessary. Last edited by Ohaunlaim; 2013-01-12 at 01:08 PM. |
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2013-01-12, 02:24 PM
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[Ignore Me] #10 | |||
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Private
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Why make ESF worse? Just wait until you get XP for AA-ing and watch the air numbers dwindle. If that isn't enough, then you can nerf... One small step at a time. There's nothing wrong with AA maxes, they are fine.
Last edited by Killjaeden; 2013-01-12 at 02:26 PM. |
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2013-01-12, 03:21 PM
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[Ignore Me] #12 | ||
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Private
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@Seraph
I am mainly a pilot myself, and I see too much ESF abuse. Also, constant repairs are part of what I think undermines the game and leaves people feeling worn out - the back and forth between airpads feels too spammy. @Meecrob Fuel - Yeah, good point. Medics - I was talking about with their own gun. Besides, Medics can't escape pretty much any difficult situation, nor slaughter tanks in a single pass. CoF - Yeah you are right. Perhaps it could be dynamic, like the more you maneuver the greater your CoF on Rockets, meaning that they are worse for use against other aircraft. I'd rather rocket pods had a ground role only. Spotting - having it makes infantry too easy to see though. Speed - I meant that the overall speed for ESFs has gone down since Beta. I think it should be higher by default. It is a minor complaint but I think they have become sluggish in comparison. @belch Less XP - Yeah. I would rather people not be rewarded for cheap stuff. Hopefully the dynamic XP will change this along with the other G2A and AA changes. Rockets - I do not think the damage of Rocket Pods is OP, just the way the game forces you to use them. It is way too spammy. @NewSith - I really meant that rocket pods shouldn't grant so much XP if they are too easy to use. Maybe dynamic XP could change depending on the weapon you use? - Repair: sure ESF go down quickly, but it is so easy to just land-repair-kill-land-repair-kill that I think something needs to be done about it. For all intents and purposes they are nigh on invincible in the hands of a careful pilot. - Dogfights: when you are turning you slow down so that your turn radius is shorter so that you can aim quicker at the enemy. Isn't that what a good pilot does? I was exaggerating for effect when I said that dogfights are always still... I meant the mechanics tend toward slowness because you can easily achieve it. I'd rather we had real planes. - Speed: Then increase the flak speed and missile speed, don't make ESF piloting slower and more static. @Ohaunlaim - Repair XP: yeah, no xp should be rewarded at all for your own vehicle. - Repair: Yeah... I don't know what to say. The whole idea that a puny gun the size of a hamster can repair a massive attack fighter is kind of ridiculous to me. - MAX AA: you are right, it is solely an immersion thing for me. Not really important I guess. |
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2013-01-12, 04:06 PM
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[Ignore Me] #13 | ||
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First Lieutenant
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Trying to fix issues caused by people using rocket pods with a general solution targetting all ESF pilots is a mistake. Problems with rocket pods are problems with rocket pods. Same for Libs; the issue isn't the Lib itself, it's the weapons it carries.
Just to be clear though (and at the risk of derailing), i'm not saying rocket pods (or things like the Zephyr) are too powerful either (or that AA doesn't need fixing, just to clarify that too), they're just too versatile. Everyone else (whether tank driver or infantry) has to choose from a decent generalist weapon, or a powerful specialist weapon. ESFs and Libs don't have this (except if they purposely don't use those weapons, which is the important part here). I'm by no means a good pilot, but I don't feel any more hard to kill flying my Scythe (default nose gun with afterburner tanks) than I do in my Lightning (with HEAT cannon). |
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2013-01-12, 07:08 PM
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[Ignore Me] #14 | |||||
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Sergeant
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The only time when you can come close to abusing an ESF is when there are like 5 infantry guys around and they can't be bothered to look up before running from A to B. Any other time you will have turrets from neightbouring bases shooting at you, Sunderer guns, AA Maxes, A2A ESFs, Rocket Lauchers, ... And should you fly low avoiding those thing then all the average noob has to do is point his gun at the air and shoot. A spawn bombing Liberator is a different issue, but that should be improved with and of the month patch. When an ESF is inbound I hear and/or see it coming and I take cover. I've been "ninja-killed" by Magriders more often than by ESFs.
-Can kill infantry with a good aim: pods - check cannon - check (Mind you: spamming your pods in the general area of the target will not kill it. Indirect damage is far from great.) -Can kill tanks in multiple shots pods - check cannon - check (Pods can take down a Lightning w/o reload if you land them all, but landing them all on a moving target is not as easy as landing tank shots. Miss a round an you have to do a second run, exposing yourself again and way more than a tank would.) -Can do serious damage to air with a good aim pods - check cannon - check I don't know about the Libs guns but ESF pods are not the all-in-one goodness you think they are. They are just like a HEAT cannon, a bit of everything.
Last edited by SeraphC; 2013-01-12 at 07:11 PM. |
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2013-01-12, 10:46 PM
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[Ignore Me] #15 | ||
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Contributor Second Lieutenant
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Half the people complaining about ESFs should get in one and see what its like out there right now.....
Seriously, if I hear anyone whining about ESFs being overpowered now I am going to just go ape shit....
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