Gun Control

bigcracker · 2012-07-21, 07:58 AM

Gun control in the united states, Is it really necessary to own a AR-15 with a 70 round drum mag?I myself love guns, I love to go out shooting but isn't it enough seeing so many people get killed in places they shouldn't be. People are getting killed in schools,Colleges and now movie theaters. So is it time to start restricting the firearms that are available to us? To start putting in longer waiting periods and a mandatory license to use?

Zulthus · 2012-07-21, 08:23 AM

Civilians should of course be able to own firearms. Even so, I honestly don't see why they would, as you said, need military assault rifles and .50 caliber weapons. I'm not sure why they're on sale.

I'm not trying to say I want them to restrict gun sales or anything, but do you really need that M16, or that M249? I just think it's a little silly that those kinds of weapons are available to the public.

I own a M9 myself just in case, absolutely no need for anything larger myself.

Zulthus · 2012-07-21, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

An M9 with a magazine of 9mm +P 147 gr JHP. Is as dangerous as any
weapon you just mentioned. Reason. It is not the gun, it's the bullet.

In the 90s the Black Talon bullet was famous for being so brutal. That is a
baby compared to the bullets available to civilians these days. Technology
has come a long way with bullets.

People who have these gun grabber discussions don't understand. It is the
bullet that has become more powerful, not the gun.

I'm not saying you're wrong, because you're right, but the difference between a pistol and a machine gun is the amount of ammunition it holds and it can spit it out a lot faster. I never said that one was more dangerous than the other.

But, there's a reason the military doesn't just run around with a pistol in the field

All I'm saying is I don't see the point of selling military grade weapons to the public when a pistol is just as dangerous but much cheaper. I don't know many people that sleep with a M249 under their pillow

Vash02 · 2012-07-21, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

An M9 with a magazine of 9mm +P 147 gr JHP. Is as dangerous as any
weapon you just mentioned. Reason. It is not the gun, it's the bullet.

In the 90s the Black Talon bullet was famous for being so brutal. That is a
baby compared to the bullets available to civilians these days. Technology
has come a long way with bullets.

People who have these gun grabber discussions don't understand. It is the
bullet that has become more powerful, not the gun.

You do you understand that some guns can spread bullets more efficiently and rapidly than other guns right?

bigcracker · 2012-07-21, 09:29 AM

In a way i agree with Dj a little yes owning a M16 is bad but also the ammunition also plays a big part. In Colorado he was using rounds that when he shot someone even a 5.56 at close range will go through a couple of people. But then again whats the point of owning a M16,AR or AK its not like your going to hunt with it.

BNuts · 2012-07-21, 09:49 AM

You can't own a M249 SAW as a normal civilan, period. An M-4 is just as dangerous as any pistol or shotgun. Regulations on magazine size and such and types of ammunition avial. for use are pure lobbyist BS. In NJ you can't even have hollow-points.. I have myself never pulled a weapon on anyone, or had the need to, in the US.
But I retain the right to carry a firearm, and to use it to protect myself and my family.

Best way to protect yourself.. Live in a safe neighborhood, and stay away from any area or situation where you would think you would need to carry a weapon of any sort.

Figment · 2012-07-21, 09:56 AM

But what if you want to revolt against the government? What is inherently wrong with having Patriot missile systems (it's in the name!) in your backyard? I mean, they got AH-64 Apaches! A-10 Thunderbolt Warthogs!

And clusterbombs!

Clearly, if your point of having a gun is to rebel against the oppressor, anything short of allowing private armies is limiting your freedoms!

(And remember the Ala... commies! Must defend against the commies and fill the pockets of ye good ol' all american patriotic weapons industry!)

[/foilhat]

EDIT: Can we at least agree the above line of argumentation should never be followed when argueing in favour of gun possession because it's just that stupid even if they try to make it sound "reasonable"?

Zulthus · 2012-07-21, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by BNuts

You can't own a M249 SAW as a normal civilan, period.

You can, it's just regulated... very heavily regulated. You need to live in a class III firearms state, send in the paperwork, get the required permits, wait a few months, and find a SAW manufactured/registered before '86. Priced normally around $25k-$50k. Sometimes upwards of $100k. Good luck finding one.

So I guess yeah, not as a 'normal' civilian...

Accuser · 2012-07-21, 11:05 AM

Last year I was living in the south-western part of South Korea and one weekend in May they were commemorating the 31st anniversary of the "Gwangju Democratization Movement". You see, until the 1980's, the country was run by a U.S. backed military dictator... a capitalist dictator, of course. And on 18 May 1980 a series of rallies were held to protest ongoing martial law, the closing of universities and other curtailed rights. In the ensuing clashes, many protesters and onlookers were beaten or killed by police and military forces. In response to the killings, protesters raided armories and police stations, arming themselves and pushing military forces out of the city.

Over the proceeding days, as negotiations with the authoritarian regime broke down, some vowed non-violent resistance. Others refused to return to oppression without a fight. And fight they did, to the last man. Five divisions of an authoritarian regime marched into Gwangju. Nearly as many soldiers later marched out. But the regime's military victory was a crushing political defeat. The enemy was equipped with tanks, APCs and state-of-the-art, U.S. supplied M16s. And yet, in violent resistance, the people gained victory through their defeat.

Saying "give me liberty or give me death" and having the power to f*cking make it happen. Being able to revive the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots and tyrants, however it may fall. That's what it means to be armed and trained. That's why my ancestors held these things in such high regard. And that's why many of us will still say "from my cold, dead hands".

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-07-21, 11:22 AM

I don't see the need for private citizens to have assault rifles, automatic weapons, or otherwise military/SWAT-grade hardware. I cannot even imagine a situation that a normal person could find themselves in where a hunting rifle or a handgun wouldn't do the trick.

That said, if we're going to see a reduction in violent crime in this country, more guns won't help any more than less guns. We need a fundamental shift in our cultural psychology, which frankly nobody wants to do. So get used to the bodycount, because it's going to get worse before it gets better, I imagine.

Greeniegriz · 2012-07-21, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by bigcracker

Gun control in the united states, Is it really necessary to own a AR-15 with a 70 round drum mag?I myself love guns, I love to go out shooting but isn't it enough seeing so many people get killed in places they shouldn't be. People are getting killed in schools,Colleges and now movie theaters. So is it time to start restricting the firearms that are available to us? To start putting in longer waiting periods and a mandatory license to use?

First off, I'm a gun owner. I use my firearms for target shooting, hunting and home protection.

I'm all for gun control solutions so that criminals and unstable people can't get gun. However, the problem I see with any solution is there is always a way to get a gun. How do you regulate and restrict private sales? Gun shows? Someone buying a gun for someone else?

Cheers,

GG

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Foe · 2012-07-21, 01:25 PM

Banning assult weapons will solve nothing. They will be bought illegally and then what?

And honestly since we all play or have played a FPS. How fast can you make the pistol shoot in game?

Even with small clip sizes a well practiced person with a pistol can make you think he has a automatic weapon.

Neurotoxin · 2012-07-21, 01:36 PM

The laws in CO prevented anyone from being able to know about or do anything to prevent the Batmassacre.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/168986...-got-guns-ease

The points in the middle of this article pretty well details what allowed the tragedy in Aurora to happen... there is no gun registration in Colorado and weapon databases are illegal, the assault weapons ban expired a presidency ago, and he was basically to the letter of the law in Colorado in terms of owning and carrying weapons.

I disagree with this kind of anonymous access to firearms. The solution isn't a gun in every hand and a cap in every ass, we'd just have more dead people if the theater erupted in a hail of counter-gunfire. Clearly the lack of gun control has directly facilitated the motives of a murderer. I'm not saying people don't have the right to own a firearm to reinforce popular self-determination if the nation should ever be attacked, but that people should not be allowed to buy, own, carry, and operate portable deadly long-range weaponry without it being noted somewhere.

And I see no problem with gun registration. If the fear is that the government is going to start going home-by-home collecting firearms before enacting a draconian policy where guns would help to resist, then gun enthusiasts need to develop better organization with their fellow firearm enthusiasts so that they can resist police when they come to take guns from the community. They'll stand down in the face of 50 high-powered guns, don't worry. And if they don't, congrats, you've just formed a revolutionary militia of sorts.

Vash02 · 2012-07-21, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

History is full of examples like these of the value of an armed citizenry.

What? They got slaughtered, may as well have not bothered with the guns.

Warborn · 2012-07-21, 04:20 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwangju...ation_Movement

There's the Wiki page on this so-called triumph of armed citizens. They got massacred, and although the army initially withdrew after they fired back with military-grade weaponry and LMGs, once reinforcements arrived they curbstomped the militia.

Firearms are completely fucking pointless as weapons to fight the government with. You will not beat guys trained to use military firearms, packing grenades, machineguns, body armor, night optics, and supported by armored fighting vehicles, tanks, and helicopters. The fantasyland nonsense where American citizens overthrow their government is absurd, and although maybe in the 18th century such a thing were possible, these days you people would be bombed by a drone and the fighting would be over in an instant.