It's unfair of the developers to take away physical Artillery

Goldeh · 2012-07-09, 08:08 PM

I know they're many threads addressing the topic but I believe that it's lazy of the developer that they can't find a way to incorperate a physical presence on the battlefield for Artillery. If one were argue that it's lame to get killed by something that you couldn't see then one could also argue the same for the sniper. It's boggling that when it comes to FPS games at least, no developer can be creative when it comes to Artillery, the last FPS I remember that I played with physical-mobile-vehicle artillery was Battlefield 1942. They either make it into an ability (Orbital Stike) or not include it at all and it's never truly stated as to why they make this decison.

In addition is that an Orbital Strike, isn't counterable (at least from what we/I know). You have to let it happen. At least with Artillery, after the first shell goes off, if there's someone paying attention then they could go there and get the Artillery before it does real damage. Also, the argument that "artillery kills more allies than enemies" is bogus, it only happens because artillery doesn't know where he's firing at. Also, You could argue the same for the indiscriminate Orbital Strike if a person was playing blindfolded.

Now I never played Planetside 1, but I was hoping that Planetside 2 would do Artillery justice considering the massive scale of it all..I just think it's unfair for the developer to not add in a physical presence of Artillery without giving it a serious looking at but instead replace it with an quickie ability and calling that artillery when it's not. It's not fair and needs to be re-looked at by the developers in my opinion.

Sirisian · 2012-07-09, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Goldeh

I know they're many threads addressing the topic

We have many threads that offer balanced solutions toward this issue. I always liked my suggestion, but others have brought up solution. A big thing is players here have mentioned they don't like extremely indirect weapons.

Originally Posted by Goldeh

If one were argue that it's lame to get killed by something that you couldn't see then one could also argue the same for the sniper.

Sniping requires line of sight. However, many have argued for no one-hit kills in PS2, so that argument falls flat.

Originally Posted by Goldeh

In addition is that an Orbital Strike, isn't counterable (at least from what we/I know). You have to let it happen.

Agreed. We've had multiple threads now about treating artillery and other projectiles as physical objects which can be targeted and shot down. The concept of ES weapons makes such things difficult or less balanceable.

Chances are whatever implementation you're thinking of has already been suggested though. If you search the forums you'll see multiple threads on the subject that are massive.

Reefpirate · 2012-07-09, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Goldeh

I know they're many threads addressing the topic but I believe that it's lazy of the developer that they can't find a way to incorperate a physical presence on the battlefield for Artillery. If one were argue that it's lame to get killed by something that you couldn't see then one could also argue the same for the sniper. It's boggling that when it comes to FPS games at least, no developer can be creative when it comes to Artillery, the last FPS I remember that I played with physical-mobile-vehicle artillery was Battlefield 1942. They either make it into an ability (Orbital Stike) or not include it at all and it's never truly stated as to why they make this decison.

In addition is that an Orbital Strike, isn't counterable (at least from what we/I know). You have to let it happen. At least with Artillery, after the first shell goes off, if there's someone paying attention then they could go there and get the Artillery before it does real damage. Also, the argument that "artillery kills more allies than enemies" is bogus, it only happens because artillery doesn't know where he's firing at. Also, You could argue the same for the indiscriminate Orbital Strike if a person was playing blindfolded.

Now I never played Planetside 1, but I was hoping that Planetside 2 would do Artillery justice considering the massive scale of it all..I just think it's unfair for the developer to not add in a physical presence of Artillery without giving it a serious looking at but instead replace it with an quickie ability and calling that artillery when it's not. It's not fair and needs to be re-looked at by the developers in my opinion.

I think artillery would be cool if they could figure it out some day. They've considered it, they'll implement it in a form with OS being artillery-like, and there's no way it's getting in the game between now and beta/release.

Is it unfair? I don't know what unfair means by your standards... But I don't mind waiting until a while after release for it.

Turdicus · 2012-07-09, 08:15 PM

Ehhhhh unfair is a hugely horrible word to use here. They took it out because in PS1 artillery was a pain the arse and more annoying than fun. Aside from that they want to reduce indirect play as much as possible. OS isn't a replacement, it was a separate entity in PS1 and it is a separate entity here (imo).

Anyway it might be added in later, the game has a 5 year cycle and they already put liberator bombs back in when they werent an original plan. And the argument against them was the same as the one against arty.

Stardouser · 2012-07-09, 08:16 PM

Planetside is a game where you would like to have high hopes for strategic aspects. Artillery is a strategic asset, and you respond strategically. Not having things like artillery is a blow to strategy, minor though it may be.

The only problem with Flails in PS1 was the huge blast radius and unlimited range. I agree that those were unfair. But apart from that, the complaints are really just people who expect to be able to return fire instantly, a duel simulator, in other words. Artillery range should be limited, maybe 750-1000 meters, that means all you have to do is go look for it.

With all that said, I like the idea of fixed location firebases that have artillery built into them. The enemy always knows where they are, and can suppress them or capture them for their own use.

Knightwyvern · 2012-07-09, 08:17 PM

I'd really like artillery to eventually make it into PS2, they are just too fundamental in modern (and not-so-modern) warfare to pass up IMO. I'd even probably prefer actual player-driven artillery pieces over OS style point and clicks. Having a teammate in an artillery piece a km away, with your infil at the front laying down a laze target for the artillery.. seems like it would support teamwork and coordination much more than a one person OS does.

Plus as others have stated, you can just blow them up.

infected · 2012-07-09, 08:17 PM

quick fix: pick NC, get a vanguard, bombard shit from afar.

vVRedOctoberVv · 2012-07-09, 08:19 PM

I liked flails in PS1. They were my favorite targets, cause they couldn't really fight back. People not wanting artillery because "they don't like indirect fire" or "things they can't fight back against" are stupid. That moronic argument has existed since the first person picked up and threw the first rock at some guy that was carrying a stick. Artillery can be fought back against, with even a small amount of effort. Of course, if the enemy decides to camp their artillery and shell from a distance, that's a perfectly legitimate tactic... In fact, one that has been used for over 2,000 years.

NoDachi · 2012-07-09, 08:27 PM

How can you take away something from PS2 that wasn't even there to begin with?

Knightwyvern · 2012-07-09, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by infected

quick fix: pick NC, get a vanguard, bombard shit from afar.

I intend to

Though there's an idea; instead of a whole new vehicle for artillery, just add an arty turret onto the MBT for each faction. Require it to be "locked down" to fire because of high recoil or some such fluff. Also require a teammate to laze or toss smoke on targets to have any kind of real accuracy, or use it as an areal denial tool. Voila.

Littleman · 2012-07-09, 08:29 PM

If tanks can aim their barrels high enough, or if they get a turret that turns them into artillery platforms, all that would really need be added is a method for one to spot/mark a location for bombardment and the artillery driver would need only follow the guide to hit that location. Probably some form of fruity colored smoke grenade, so the bad guys know $#!% is coming their way.

Mind you this piece of equipment could work for visually marking locations for bombers and strike craft as well, a bit of a tactical beacon or waypoint if you will. Need a crossing cleared? Call in a gunship or a ES fighter pilot to do a strafing run real quick.

Sifer2 · 2012-07-09, 08:37 PM

If they didn't have stats I don't imagine people would have a problem with it. But now that they felt the need to include stats for everything, and K/D ratio it would just become a huge kill whoring weapon.

Personally I think mobile artillery might be out. But I could see them having static Artillery emplacements you could capture, and activate for your faction.

Fenrys · 2012-07-09, 08:45 PM

If it's ever added, I hope every shell costs significantly more resources than a grenade. It should be economically inadvisable to just target a vpad or tower door, then tape your mouse button down and go eat a sandwich.

Runlikethewind · 2012-07-09, 08:47 PM

If they implement artillery then they should also implement counter battery radar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-battery_radar

Xyntech · 2012-07-09, 08:48 PM

I wouldn't mind a well thought out and well balanced artillery system, but... It's "unfair" that they aren't including it? Fuck off.

It's "unfair" that VS MAXes don't have jump jets in PS2, however it would also be unfair if they did. It would probably be unfair even if all 3 empires MAXes did, unless they had some serious downsides (only able to use a single gun, PS1 VS/NC MAX style? Would be apropos).

To say they are "taking away" artillery in PS2 is to imply a direct connection between PS1 and PS2, and the only artillery we had in PS1 was the shitty Flail. I am so glad that the devs aren't bringing back that spamming piece of shit. As I said, I'd love to see them add in a good artillery system into PS2, but it would have to be so fundamentally different from the Flail that it really wouldn't truly be bringing anything "back."

So I support them adding a new feature never before seen in a Planetside game: Well done Artillery!

But it can wait until after launch. If they find the time to get it done before then, great, but I think they have better things to work on for now.