Brink Trailer as basis of PSN discussion

Highwind · 2011-03-12, 10:54 AM

I watched this Interview-Trailer for Brink yesterday, and while doing so found myself drawing parallels both to current Planetside and to my expectations for PS:Next. What I thought would be interesting is if we could all watch the same trailer linked below, and then comment on the various aspects of both the game Brink and how those design ideals relate to what we want to see in PSN down the road.

Brink - Something for Everybody - Interview-Trailer

So generally speaking I am looking for both positive and negative feedback on how you see Brink and in reflection what that means to your views of Planetside now and what PSN should be in the future. Saying what you don't like about Brink and what wouldn't work in a PSN type setup is just as valid as what you do like from it. Also keeping in mind Brink isn't at a MMO scale of players fighting and largely avoids the additional complexity of "war" to focus on the infantry side of things. Though I still think it can be a great discussion tool, and an example of a modern FPS that doesn't follow the CS:S or Battlefield style of design, etc.

For example, I noticed that they are using a Cone of Fire system much like PS from the looks of it, see 46 seconds in or 55 sec or 3:49 as one type of reticule option. I like this type of CoF in contrast to a CounterStrike type recoil system and would prefer it in PSN if it came down to an either or choice.

Another example, the Brink developers feel very strongly about avoiding One Shot One Kill setups in their game, including grenades. This mirrors PS design, and I support it going forward into PSN. They bring up valid points about strategy and team play which should be embraced to strengthen the infantry game of PSN in the big picture.

Rather then going into more examples I want to hear your reactions before I write more.

Examples included these are some of the big topics that stood out to me:

Light - Mid - Big Body types , as compared more or less to, Agil - Rexo - Max Types
Mobility in General - does "sliding" or "climbing" have a place in a larger MMOFPS setting?
Melee combat options - attacking without switching to Knife, good or bad?
How should grenades work? Is "stunning" way too OP? How about "rooting"? Do they need to be any "better" than they are currently in PS?
What types of sights should be in the game? "From the hip" as he says is very PS like, but should there be more "laser sights" or Iron Sights / "Half-way steady aim" modes beyond "sniper sight zoom" we know now?

What are your thoughts on any or all of these points? or others.

Also do you think the format of the thread is good or bad? I found some of the other "what do you like / hate" or "what do you want to see / not see" in PSN thread to be a little too open ended, and I hope that we can hear some good points be made around the shared experience of this trailer.

Edfishy · 2011-03-12, 11:25 AM

I would highly recommend PSN include iron sights. It's just become a staple for FPS games, it feels awkward when it's missing from a game. I'd say the same for sprint and prone for that matter.

Both sprint and iron sights give you a feeling that you can improve the current situation. If I press the Iron Sight button, I feel like my aim will be improved. If I press the Sprint button, regardless of how much speed I really gain, I feel like I've improved my speed. Prone I think "take cover". They're a sort combat placebo.

Bags · 2011-03-12, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Edfishy

I would highly recommend PSN include iron sights. It's just become a staple for FPS games, it feels awkward when it's missing from a game. I'd say the same for sprint and prone for that matter.

Both sprint and iron sights give you a feeling that you can improve the current situation. If I press the Iron Sight button, I feel like my aim will be improved. If I press the Sprint button, regardless of how much speed I really gain, I feel like I've improved my speed. Prone I think "take cover". They're a sort combat placebo.

Surge = sprint.

Edfishy · 2011-03-12, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Surge = sprint.

Yes, but I guess I'm thinking with the quick-access Shift button.

It' s been a while since I've played PlanetSide... what did shift do in PlanetSide before? Didn't your character just walk?

Peacemaker · 2011-03-12, 01:49 PM

A quick access sprint button would bring surge back to what it was. Lag-Hammer Nightmare. People would warp all over the place with HA and surge. NO.

Edfishy · 2011-03-12, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

A quick access sprint button would bring surge back to what it was. Lag-Hammer Nightmare. People would warp all over the place with HA and surge. NO.

That's assuming PSN doesn't take advantage of modern techniques to prevent warping. Otherwise, yeah, probably wouldn't be a good idea.

Rbstr · 2011-03-12, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

A quick access sprint button would bring surge back to what it was. Lag-Hammer Nightmare. People would warp all over the place with HA and surge. NO.

Yeah, this is the same tired argument: New thing wouldn't work in the context of old PS technology and mechanics. Why does that matter, it's a new game? Tons of games do it now with little issue.

I would much prefer a sprint system to having the surge implant. It's kind of stupid when you can't run without some kind of implant.

I'd make surge let you run fast for a long period of time, while regular sprinting would be a fairly limited time, across the courtyard kind of thing.

Aractain · 2011-03-18, 12:04 PM

Apparently brink has proportional XP (get whatever percent of the XP based on damage you did). If PSN dosn't have newer mechanics like this its going to feel really old.

Biggest issue with orignal Planetside for new/casual players was simply not being able to get a kill so straight up damage XP would work better in that kind of a game but maybe PSN will be faster with quicker deaths?

Bags · 2011-03-18, 12:59 PM

The game needs xp based upon damage or you'll end up with no one shooting any vehicles until they are weak. It already happens in ps, weak vehicles die exponentially faster than half hp vehicles.

Galapogos · 2011-03-18, 08:20 PM

I like the idea of damage based xp as well, especially if you got a small bonus (10-20% of the total damage xp) for actually killing or finishing off your enemy. My only concern would be friends on different empires exploiting this by constantly hurting the other, then allowing them to heal and vice versa, but i'm sure that this could be worked out pretty easily.

Sifer2 · 2011-03-19, 12:41 AM

It's nice to have games like Brink coming out in a market crowded with Call of Duty type games. But i'm not sure how relevant it will be compared to Planetside since to me it looks like a different version of Team Fortress 2.

Which is different scale wise. But if anything it shows that the cone of fire mechanic isn't so bad if a game that doesn't even need it is using it.

Bags · 2011-03-19, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by Galapogos

I like the idea of damage based xp as well, especially if you got a small bonus (10-20% of the total damage xp) for actually killing or finishing off your enemy. My only concern would be friends on different empires exploiting this by constantly hurting the other, then allowing them to heal and vice versa, but i'm sure that this could be worked out pretty easily.

Just have it taper off after a bit... like each kill has a maximum amount of xp it could give out in a time period.

IE: Vanguard has a max of 5k bep.
You hurt it to 25%, you get 3750.
It repairs to full, comes back, enemies only can get a total of 1250 xp from damaging it.
After a few minutes, amount of xp slowly regenerates.
If it gets a lot of kills, regenerate xp a lot faster.
Bonus xp for kill on it (maybe based on how much it has killed also?)

Something like that. Sure it wouldn't completely fix holding out for the kill, but a lot of people would be a lot more willing to unload on a full hp vehicle if they got 25 - 50 xp per shot. It would also eliminate the appeal of damaging a friend for a lot of experience because this would be much slower than fighting. That or they could add diminishing returns for damaging the same target over and over and over in the same life. Regardless, 20 xp per kill isn't going to do much for leveling.

I was running with BWC the other day and we were rolling prowlers. I was main gunner for one in squad one, the gunner for tank two was in squad two. I was getting 80% of the tank kills so their squad got nothing but they did half the work. As much as I like getting all the xp, it's not fair to them.

Also, I think squad xp from CLOSE squadies should be a lot more than 25%. If they're on the other side of the cont, 25% is fine. But if they're nearby it should be more like 40 - 80%, at least. If they need to make BR take more xp, or make everything generally give slightly less, but you should be getting a lot of experience for squading even if you don't get the last hit. This also eliminates a lot of the people who desperately try to get the last hit and end up hitting friendlies. Don't need to worry about getting the last hit if you still get 75% of the xp for the kill from your squad.

Rbstr · 2011-03-19, 01:37 AM

I always thought there should be an "Assist" level of xp. If you did more than X% of damage, you get at least half of what the final blow buy does.

XP bonuses for being close to squadies is a great idea too.

Varium · 2011-03-19, 03:14 PM

I would love to see a powerfull sniper rifle that is capable of one shot kills. But make it difficult to use factor in bullet drop wind maybe make it so u can actually use mil dots on the scope like a real riffle. I have always been a huge fan of sniping from as far away as I can hit some one going all the way back to Delta Force 2. Maybe make the rifle more powerfull the farther away you are fromt he target I dunno just a thought.

Bags · 2011-03-19, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Varium

I would love to see a powerfull sniper rifle that is capable of one shot kills. But make it difficult to use factor in bullet drop wind maybe make it so u can actually use mil dots on the scope like a real riffle. I have always been a huge fan of sniping from as far away as I can hit some one going all the way back to Delta Force 2. Maybe make the rifle more powerfull the farther away you are fromt he target I dunno just a thought.

There's already a two shot sniper rifle and almost no one supports a one shot sniper rifle.