Generator

Gogita · 2011-02-23, 08:19 AM

I have been thinking lately how to generator drops a more interesting tactic and less of a fast I-WIN-button tactic.

What if...
When you destroy the generator, the base will switch to emergency power power. This will prevent the base the base from shutting down completely, but only for a short amount of time, like 5 minutes. (this of course can be tested in beta)
After 5 minutes, the gen will go down completely and it will have the same effect as a gen drop currently has.

The defending team has to try to repair the gen within the timer to prevent the base from going down and maybe losing the base.
The attacking team has to defend the generator to prevent the defending team from repairing the generator.

Also some alternative effects of having a base running on alternative power is for example that you cannot get vehicles anymore, because it takes too much power. With this, gen dropping a base can still make the enemy empire having problems getting armor, but still make it possible for them to spawn there.

What do you guys think? Don't be too harsh please...

klu · 2011-02-23, 09:28 AM

not a bad idea, you could accomplish about the same effect with multiple generators also. i personally hope the bases and towers become much more complicated, in layout, and with more 'capture points' (multiple generators and cc's, or something new)

Wrath · 2011-02-23, 10:03 AM

I dont see the issue with gen drops there only able to be used on a handful of bases due to gens being in basements in a lot

Firefly · 2011-02-23, 11:08 AM

Firstly, a generator drop is not the I-WIN button. Generator drops can successfully be countered, thereby resecuring the generator. It's not foolproof, mind you, and you can't just zergtard it to death.

I tend to believe that generators were poorly implemented from the get-go and I'm hoping it's one aspect of the game's mechanics that someone looked at and said "We need an engineer!"

The generator needs a number of defensive measures. It's a critical point in a base defense. It's a critical point in attacks. It should be better defended. What those defenses might be, I don't really know. I've never stopped to analyze it.

basti · 2011-02-23, 11:19 AM

You and one of another of your crazy ideas again? OUT!

Seriously: bad idea, really bad idea. The problem with gendropping isnt the dropping, its the idiots that dont understand that a gen needs to be protected as well. And it is easy to protect: If you have all base entrances and the main lobby/cc under control, just pass the gen every few minutes to check for possible cloakers. You will be fine that way.
If you loose a base entrance, check more often for cloakers while making sure the enemy zerg cant push to the gen.
If you loose main lobby/CC, defend the gen at all time with a few guys. Just make sure no AV max can run throu the open doors (door virus/CC hack) and kill the gen alone.

And bang, you are fine. No need for another system that makes the valid tactic of blowing the gen by yourself impossible. Guard your stuff, or loose it, it is that simple.

and about the i-win button thingy: a few days ago, on esamir, VS had Dagon, Jarl and the Dropship. Vs had to defend Dagur mostly, because of a ongoing NC vehicle push. Jarl was CEd up, but almost completly empty.
Renegade Legion, a NC outfit, tried SEVERAL times to galdrop and genhold Jarl. Every time they tried, the VS fought at Dagur and only a few at Jarl, not enough to have a chance against the NC. EVERY time the NC tried, the VS managed to kill themself at Dagur, spawn over to Jarl (bound there), and grab gear to counter the NC, and that in the time it took to discover the Galdrop-NC kill gen, mostly just half a minute.
Every time, we managed to attack the NC at the gen level before they could even kill and evacuate the gen. Every time we killed a few before they got ready to fully defend. Every time we forced the to hold inside the gen, and every time we managed to remove them and fix the gen within 3 minutes of the gen going down.
Dont get me Wrong, Renegade Legion isnt a bad outfit. They had quite a bunch of people, and they know how to do stuff, but they had no chance against the VS zerg that always appeared when they hit Jarl. It was at least a 2-1 ratio.
And you tell me a Gen Kill is a I-WIN button? It is not, and never was. And just because you fail to counter it doesnt mean there needs to be a system to help you. Just start learing to adapt to situations rather than starting to cry.

kaffis · 2011-02-23, 12:45 PM

Honestly, this is another "problem" that goes away if you make defending bases that aren't already the target of an organized attack fun for players and/or worthwhile in their assessment of things to do.

Reward patrolling and defense, and generator problems go away, as the generator's one of the things to be defended.

The problem is, there's never been an incentive to defend something that wasn't already swarming with enemies to kill.

Tremadog · 2011-02-23, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by kaffis

The problem is, there's never been an incentive to defend something that wasn't already swarming with enemies to kill.

That's a very good point. I hope that gets addressed. Perhaps getting a small incentive for spotting a new enemy target could help?

basti · 2011-02-23, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Tremadog

That's a very good point. I hope that gets addressed. Perhaps getting a small incentive for spotting a new enemy target could help?

I have a better idea: you understand that you dont need LOLXP for every damn thing you do, including breathing, and learn that keeping the gen alive is more important than farming 950325 kills and 2389075628965 bep.

Because i really love to see you BEP and killwhores being punished for your stupidity every damn time. Keep farming the guys while i kill your gen, im happy with that.

Firefly · 2011-02-23, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by kaffis

The problem is, there's never been an incentive to defend something that wasn't already swarming with enemies to kill.

Um, yes there is. It's called, not getting your generator ganked. A blown generator, if overlooked, is like an STD - if you don't treat it, it becomes a real problem.

Fail to protect your generator. It will fuck you in the ass.

That's your incentive. Problem solved, next?

DviddLeff · 2011-02-23, 01:48 PM

In the upgrade project I have the following system:

Generators: When a generator is destroyed it is no longer as much of an immediate crippling blow for the defenders. Once the generator is destroyed the bases systems go off-line one after another every 10 seconds in the following sequence.

Any lattice or module benefits - Door locks - Turrets - Vehicle bays - Equipment terminals - spawn tubes

This gives the defenders a minute to get the generator repaired or at least prepare before they lose all the facilities power.

Grimster · 2011-02-23, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

In the upgrade project I have the following system:

Generators: When a generator is destroyed it is no longer as much of an immediate crippling blow for the defenders. Once the generator is destroyed the bases systems go off-line one after another every 10 seconds in the following sequence.

Any lattice or module benefits - Door locks - Turrets - Vehicle bays - Equipment terminals - spawn tubes

This gives the defenders a minute to get the generator repaired or at least prepare before they lose all the facilities power.

Nice idea but isn't one minute cutting it a bit short?

I think 3-5 minutes would be a better way to go.

basti · 2011-02-23, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Grimster

Nice idea but isn't one minute cutting it a bit short?

I think 3-5 minutes would be a better way to go.

No, it should be a maximum of 10 secs before the tubes go out. There should NEVER be a system that allows you to slack of and ignore gen defense. And even 10 secs would make it extremly easy to get the gen up again...

Timantium · 2011-02-23, 02:36 PM

I agree the time needs to be less than 1 minute. That would be like announcing a system alert when a hacker starts hacking the CC. They already get an announcement like this when the gen is under attack. Defenders already have the advantage, there is absolutely no need to buff the defense.

Good defenders will beat back a great assault.

wildcat140679 · 2011-02-23, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Gogita

I have been thinking lately how to generator drops a more interesting tactic and less of a fast I-WIN-button tactic.

What if...
When you destroy the generator, the base will switch to emergency power power. This will prevent the base the base from shutting down completely, but only for a short amount of time, like 5 minutes. (this of course can be tested in beta)...

Drats, some one already posted pretty much the exact same idea that I've been walking around with in my head today at work.

The only difference to the idea I had spinning in my head today was, that I was thinking about actually adding a 2nd backup generator or UPS room.

One close to or under the spawning room, that would be much easier to defend, preventing it from getting destroyed as well.

This backup emergency generator (UPS) would only be supplying power to the spawning room and equipment terminals in that room, all other base device and defense would be powerless.

When the generator now goes down in planetside, it's very rarely that the base defenders recover from it and most of the time the battle is lost.

With this backup generator having only a limited supply of power, defenders need to shift defense in to offense to re-secure the generator room and repair it, this shift in defense/offense might be just enough for the enemy to push through to the CC.

kaffis · 2011-02-23, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by basti

I have a better idea: you understand that you dont need LOLXP for every damn thing you do, including breathing, and learn that keeping the gen alive is more important than farming 950325 kills and 2389075628965 bep.

Because i really love to see you BEP and killwhores being punished for your stupidity every damn time. Keep farming the guys while i kill your gen, im happy with that.

But any massive game that requires teamwork will always have an element of herding cats.

The idea, then, is to make it so the cats will want to do productive things. Sure *I* have no problem defending a quiet base. But my squad might. And defending something alone is so boring and unproductive that even I can't stomach it.

It also, however, doesn't reward the commander who can actually convince a squad of people to defend before the enemy zerg arrives for doing so. I think we can agree that it's (potentially) a productive use of his time and leadership, but his chance of ever getting recognized for it is zero, while platoons of uncoordinated, leaderless people are pumping CEP into 3 guys just for following the zerg around.