Connery pilot Vertical thrust talk

snafus · 2013-08-04, 09:53 PM

Figured I would drop a line here for all the top pilots for Connery to speak on the vertical thrust changes. Since it seems Higby plans on speaking with some of the top pilots on the matter. I think we should gather our top pilots and give a possible pod cast or even just discuss the matter on someones stream. Anything to give more constructive feedback, espeacialy feed back that comes from people who actually know what they are talking about.

And if we already have our top aces in one pool sharing opinions on the matter it would be easier for the devs to reach out for that feed back. The main thing is to help SOE have options to possibly make the flying in PS2 casual friendly to a degree, without alienating all the vets. Please share your thought on how we could put this together or who would be willing to participate.

Coltorl · 2013-08-05, 12:58 AM

This will turn into that shit talking outfit meeting Connery had so many months ago. And with the ego some of the pilots have here that podcast will be over before it started.

DataBlue · 2013-08-05, 02:10 AM

Count me in! ^.^

snafus · 2013-08-05, 02:49 AM

Unlikely Coltorl as all the pilots I'm actually after speak to each other quite often and civilly. Hell I fly with a few of them when I feel like going cross faction and them likewise. The whole reason I want the top percent is they are some of the most unbiased of the whole flying community since they have the most understanding of the subject.

And I think they understand this isn't a nerf to either faction but rather a nerf to everyone across the board. There really isn't any ACE on Connery that I have come across that acts in that manner to be honest. I think they all would understand that the stream would be for the betterment of the game. And give the devs solid unbiased information that can help them make it fun for everyone.

NUKABAZOOKA · 2013-08-05, 05:01 AM

SNAFU at the panel I attended (I believe it was the PSU one where they talked a bit about RM'ing) they were trying to tone it down because they felt that it was relied upon too heavily by experienced pilots and that if you couldn't do it, you got relegated to shit tier. Which is basically how you can discern a good pilot from a bad, and that it was too frustrating for new players to try and learn.

However all the proposed change does is harm everyone because now you have no options if you get jumped, other than to run back to a friendly hex.
At least that's how I view it.

IMO it's fine as is, and will do far more harm then good.
Not everyone is meant to fly.

KesTro · 2013-08-05, 02:33 PM

I don't claim to be a 'top' pilot but my ESF is my most used vehicle and I spend my fair share in the air.

The change will suck but if you fly with friends I don't see this hurting you all too much. If anything what's going to happen is that there will be more people in the air and thus more fodder for your nosegun.

snafus · 2013-08-05, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by NUKABAZOOKA

SNAFU at the panel I attended (I believe it was the PSU one where they talked a bit about RM'ing) they were trying to tone it down because they felt that it was relied upon too heavily by experienced pilots and that if you couldn't do it, you got relegated to shit tier. Which is basically how you can discern a good pilot from a bad, and that it was too frustrating for new players to try and learn.

However all the proposed change does is harm everyone because now you have no options if you get jumped, other than to run back to a friendly hex.
At least that's how I view it.

IMO it's fine as is, and will do far more harm then good.
Not everyone is meant to fly.

Yeah I share the sentiment on the mechanics should be left alone. The main reason I still play today is because of how different PS2 flight game is compared to all the other available titles. I was mostly hoping to help try and find ways to make the game more approachable to newer or bad players since that is the perceived focus of the devs. Honestly I wish they would tell people up front. That flying is an advanced skill and should be approached with the understanding it will require lots of practice. And maybe even throw in a more advanced tutorial for those that need to witness what ESF can do.

snafus · 2013-08-05, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by KesTro

I don't claim to be a 'top' pilot but my ESF is my most used vehicle and I spend my fair share in the air.

The change will suck but if you fly with friends I don't see this hurting you all too much. If anything what's going to happen is that there will be more people in the air and thus more fodder for your nosegun.

Yes it is always good to have more targets Kestro, but I would rather enjoy my combat. Simplifying what we can do by nerfing vertical thrust by 75% is a bad choice of design direction in my opinion. I continue to play this game because of the challenge that air combat gives. If it turns into "who brings more friends" then I really can't see myself continuing to support SOE.

SolLeks · 2013-08-05, 05:53 PM

I don't claim to be a top pilot either, but the only way I can see them getting this to work by taking out the RM is to revamp the entire flight system.

100% revamp

Lots of flight sim like things added

Otherwise, they should make some tutorials on how to do it... and hell, I would be willing to help the dev team develop that (I have taught it to enough people in my outfit =0)

Coltorl · 2013-08-05, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by KesTro

I don't claim to be a 'top' pilot but my ESF is my most used vehicle and I spend my fair share in the air.

The change will suck but if you fly with friends I don't see this hurting you all too much. If anything what's going to happen is that there will be more people in the air and thus more fodder for your nosegun.

Originally Posted by SolLeks

I don't claim to be a top pilot either, but the only way I can see them getting this to work by taking out the RM is to revamp the entire flight system.

100% revamp

Lots of flight sim like things added

Otherwise, they should make some tutorials on how to do it... and hell, I would be willing to help the dev team develop that (I have taught it to enough people in my outfit =0)

I have DCS World for conventional dogfights, this game is so unique in its flight model that I keep on coming back to it even when there are 'better' options such as ARMA and Battlefield (Both of those I still love)

SolLeks · 2013-08-05, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Coltorl

I have DCS World for conventional dogfights, this game is so unique in its flight model that I keep on coming back to it even when there are 'better' options such as ARMA and Battlefield (Both of those I still love)

Yes, I love this game for the different flight model and wish it not to change, SOE seems hellbent on changing it though.

KesTro · 2013-08-05, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by SolLeks

Yes, I love this game for the different flight model and wish it not to change, SOE seems hellbent on changing it though.

They've got to appeal to the masses though and not the minority. Besides it was stated in one of the other threads that the reverse maneuver was going to be considered as a perk along with the new fuel tanks people could cert into.

Should that be the case I think it's a handy way of appeasing everyone. Those who are super into dogfighting can continue to do so and dominate even more people. 'but' you have to trade majority of your Anti-ground versatility to do so.

I don't see that as a bad thing at all. I am firmly against jack-of-all-trades aspects to anything in the game. The ESF is undoubtedly the biggest example of a jack-of-all-trades vehicles.

Someone had sumed it up long ago in a way I found humorous.

"An ESF is like a lightning with the Skyguard, Anti-Armor and Anti-infantry gun all in one. And people are trying to defend it saying, "Nah! It's intended to be this way!""

We'll see how thing play out when this goes live, for now I can't believe it's going to be anywhere near as bad as people think.

NUKABAZOOKA · 2013-08-06, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by KesTro

They've got to appeal to the masses though and not the minority.

There are better ways then taking away an incredibly useful tool.

That's like a kid in class having a cookie in his packed lunch and all the other children upset that their parents didn't pack them cookies in theirs, so teacher is taking away the cookie so nobody can have it.

Instead, perhaps make it easier to RM?

KesTro · 2013-08-06, 03:37 AM

We'll just have to see how it plays out live. As I've stated will an individual pilot be hurt in one on ones? Yes because now getting the jump on someone will mean something instead of them pulling that maneuver to get on equal footing with someone. They will actually have to try and shake people off of them using their environment.

I understand people like the Reverse Maneuver as something that's unique to Planetside but we all saw a nerf to ESF's coming in some shape or form and they certainly can't nerf their weapons again.

Personally, I see them doing this change to directly help people with the lock-on change they plan on implementing as well so even if the RM was made easier to use that would be an issue.

It was cool while it lasted boys but it's time to put the inflated K/D's and fun away.

snafus · 2013-08-06, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by KesTro

We'll just have to see how it plays out live. As I've stated will an individual pilot be hurt in one on ones? Yes because now getting the jump on someone will mean something instead of them pulling that maneuver to get on equal footing with someone. They will actually have to try and shake people off of them using their environment.

I understand people like the Reverse Maneuver as something that's unique to Planetside but we all saw a nerf to ESF's coming in some shape or form and they certainly can't nerf their weapons again.

Personally, I see them doing this change to directly help people with the lock-on change they plan on implementing as well so even if the RM was made easier to use that would be an issue.

It was cool while it lasted boys but it's time to put the inflated K/D's and fun away.

Oh and slightly off subject I have tested out the new weapons as well. And lets just say you will be missing that ability to turn quickly once those suckers go live. Not only are they possibly nerfing vertical thrust to nothing, but they have given us the most ridiculously OP weapons to follow that nerf. TTK will be extremely fast come this ESF update.