Improvement: Buggy implementation - for the future

[MasterChief096]

Buggies were quite popular in PlanetSide 1. Everyone loved the harasser, pilots feared the Skyguard, and the empire specific buggies were just really fun to harass enemies and drive around. It has been made quite clear that buggies won't be in the game in beta or even at launch, and I think most of us are OK with that. This thread is just speculative work on how buggies can make an appearance in the game in the future.

Pros of Buggies

1. Different look and feel, adds diversity to the battlefield
2. Allows different play-styles
3. Appeases old PlanetSide 1 vets
4. Is new content for future updates
5. Implementation (read the details below)

Cons of Buggies

1. In the current system, tanks now fulfill all the roles of the buggies in the previous game. Want a strong AA vehicle? No need for a Skyguard, just spec out your vanguard with two AA weapons and shed some of the armor to increase its speed for fast getaways. It seems that tank customization has eliminated the use of buggies found previously in PlanetSide 1.

Implementation of Buggies

The primary goal is to figure out:

- How can buggies be made useful and fun in PlanetSide 2 without them becoming obsolete side vehicles.
- Keeping them balanced with the rest of the vehicles in the game.

The first thing that I would like to say is that in this thread, I plan to address A LOT of different ways that buggies can be implemented, so keep in mind that all of these ideas can be considered, or only certain ones, or none at all.

The search function procured a thread (http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=18260) discussing the idea of a common pool Heavy Buggy.

In keeping with this theme, I would like to consider the common pool buggy's implementation as well as a very different view of buggies.

I think it would be a good idea to have class-specific buggies (more on this later, for now we will talk about the common pool heavy buggy).

The common pool heavy buggy would have several key differences from ES tanks and the lightnings. Most notably:

- Its speed would be drastically faster than all tanks

- It would be able to negotiate harder terrain easier than all tanks

- Its size would be drastically smaller than all tanks

- Its armor would be drastically less than all tanks

- Its weapons would be less powerful (generally) than all tanks

- Its only purpose would be a fast moving, lightly armored forward attack vehicle

The common pool Heavy Buggy would be operated by a light assault character and could be gunned by any class with the exception of MAX suits. Its main purpose would be a fast moving and lightly armored attack vehicle capable of easily negotiating in and out of hotly contended zones and packing a substantial punch before quickly retreating for repairs. It could also be a manageable light vehicle in areas that are really only hospitable to infantry but buggies would also be able to somewhat negotiate.

In addition to the common pool Heavy Buggy, I propose that there be separate empire specific buggies for each CLASS in the game. Naturally, each ES specific buggy would follow the same ES specific design to eliminate the need to develop 15 different buggies altogether. The class differences would be in the add-ons and unlocks available through the certification system. The MAX and Heavy Assault classes would not have a buggy associated with it for obvious reasons.

Now I'm not going to outline and come up with designs for each class-specific and empire-specific buggy, but instead relay and general theme of each class buggy. Lets use the NC Enforcer as an example.

Each class would have access to a certification pathway that allows for unlocks for the Enforcer.

Infiltrator

The infiltrator class buggy would be for scouting and reconnaissance purposes only, and would have several key unlocks to make this easier. An example would be being able to deploy "camera" devices directly from the back of the vehicle while driving with a set limit on the number you can deploy. Another unlock could be a miniature radar dish that would allow the infiltrator to sort of "deploy" the Enforcer in a key location to monitor enemy movement in a certain number of hexes. Radar information would be available only to that infiltrator meaning he would have to "call out" targets to his squad mates or outfit members to make the use of this effective. Also, think of a "harasser" type infiltrator variant designed for two people, the driver having to be an infiltrator. It could spec to unlock the ability to negate enemy radar detection, just like the harasser in the original game. Ideas for other certification unlocks for the infiltrator are welcome.

Light Assault

This class' buggy is fulfilled by the common pool Heavy Buggy (which has a different design template than each of the three ES buggies).

Medium Assault

The Medium Assault class' buggy would emphasize transport. It would be more akin to a US military Humvee in allowing 4-6 people to ride, MAXs not allowed of course. Specialized unlocks could include things like additional transport slots, different light armaments for EACH of the passengers to use (nothing more powerful than MA rifle variants except attached to the vehicle). Advantages over the Sunderer ground transport is that it is much faster and more maneuverable, and a lot less obvious. Disadvantage is that there is no room for MAXs, has less armor, and doesn't pack a huge punch with its armaments. This vehicle would be ideal for small squads to zip around quickly and lightly. This is also an ideal special assault vehicle for those groups that don't dig the Galaxies and need a faster and less obvious mode than the Sunderer. Please add ideas for certification unlocks pertaining to small squad transportation.

Medic

The medic buggy would only carry one person, two with a cert unlock (both slots only being open to medics). It would have no weapons except for light armaments that would be unlocked for the secondary medic/gunner. It would be used as sort of a field indicator of where to go to be healed. It could be "deployed", conferring several advantages to empire friendlies.

- It would have two PlanetSide 1-esque medical terminals that friendlies can run up to to be healed (even if there is no medic around and it is deployed).
- It would allow empire medics to resupply.

The main boons of this buggy would be its eventual unlocks. Potential unlocks could be a "nanite gun" that the gunner-medic can shoot friendlies with to heal them from a distance while in a slightly armored vehicle (balance on this would have to be heavily discussed, as well as the trade-offs). Another, future unlock of the nanite gun would be a variant that allows resurrection from a distance. A possible high-end unlock would be kind of like the squad leader unlock that allows squad members to spawn on him/her. The medic can eventually unlock the ability to allow the buggy to become a spawn point for empire medics. Please add additional medic buggy ideas.

Engineer

Fun fun fun. The engineer would have a buggy unlock tree geared towards all of the cool things an engineer does around the battlefield. This buggy would be lightly armored and only allow for one person, no armaments. Potential unlocks could include things like being able to instantly drop 5 mines (with unlocks allowing for different kinds of mines!) from the back of the vehicle. Perhaps the engineer buggy can act as sort of a less efficient but fast moving lodestar type vehicle. Proximity to it confers vehicle repairs. It could be spec'd out to allow engineer resupply from the buggy itself as a top-tier unlock, removing the need to go all the way back to a terminal for more gear (only available to the driver, not empire engineers or even squad engineers). EMP functions could be unlocked to make it a pesky little vehicle to have to run into (despite being weaponless). Please contribute more ideas for engineer buggy unlocks.

Keep in mind that each class-variant buggy would have the same body template to reduce the need for designing individually "new" vehicles for each class. There would also be several differences in the implementation of unlocks for each of the three empires to make the buggies interesting. I won't go into that right now since I'm tired and I don't even know if buggy speculation will even be well received at this time.

Just keep discussing and we'll see what we come up with.

[Jinxsey]

Buggy

-3 slots basic, one pintle mounted weapon, one driver, one passenger gunner.
-Sidegrades to swap pintle mount for mobile radar?
-Sidegrades to swap gun for usualy array of different weapons fits.
-Sidegrades to remove weapons completely and outfit buggy with stealth camo generator.
-Sidegrades to add armoured crew compartment (Can no longer sniper passengers and gunner) at expensive of speed and handling, does not increase armour of vehicle much.
-Sidegrades to add super-charged engine. (Loss of grip and handling, boost in speed, take damage while dismounting at high speed).
- Supercharger, Armoured crew compartment and Stealth camo mutualy exclusive.
-Usual performance and handling sidegrades

-Very fast

-Light armour (tissue-paper and duct tape)

-Good handling (tight turns fast gear change)

-Good grip and torque (fast accel, low lateral roll)

-Cheap as chips (Can be spammed, upgraded versions may be more expensive, maybe significantly more expensive)

-Spec-ops vehicle of choice for sneaky raiding. (current alternative is Gal drop, Sundie rush or Quad spam)

[berzerkerking]

seems legit

[Lanka]

I don't care how they do it, but 3~5 person buggies should be in the game.


Let's assume you're playing with few friends, manage to get squad of 5. How are you going to transport them to next battle? PS1 you could get couple of buggies and be on your way - in PS2 with current plan you'd need either Sunderer (that'd be half empty and likely expensive), arrange ride in Galaxy (doable, but not reliable solution. Also what when pilot says there's room for 5, and someone else jumps in leaving you with 4 slots? Just let the last guy in squad sit the battle out?) or get 5 Lightnings/ATVs (that isn't very sneaky..)

Game needs a vehicle that can transport small squad around.

[Zidane]

I agree buggies need to return!

[Madlaps]

Couple of my best memories was when i first started and was a complete noob, 3 tr rexos in a marauder comes speeding towards the tower i was CEing up - grenade launcher takes out the nearest spitfires, machine gunner rapes a nearby ally... They all jump out seemingly coordinated 2 of them pulling out MCGs instantly, start killing unaware infantry and the other EMPing all my hard work away. They took the tower vs 8-10 people and i was left in awe.

Need a fast, light armoured/weapon transport please.

[Memeotis]

I'd love to see a buggy in this game. First off though, your idea for an 'Engineer' type buggy; would that not be better suited for the Quad?

I think the buggy should only be 3-5 man, any higher and it would make the Sunderer look slightly undesirable.

The general description of the buggy should be that it has very low armor (somewhere in between Flash and Lightning). Has a slightly slower acceleration than the Flash, but a slightly higher top speed. One shot from a MBT will bring it to around 10% health.

I think the buggy should be a highly versatile vehicle, able to equip itself for very specific purposes.

1. Standard (harasser): 3-man vehicle, as described in the OP.

2. Transport: 5-man vehicle, as described in the OP. Just as fast, but no mounted-weapons.

3. Infiltrator: 3-man vehicle, has no weapons, but is nearly impossible to detect due to its speed and stealth.

4. Support: 3-man vehicle, able to deploy and turn into a limitless ammo dispenser and health terminal. Alternatively can also be turned into more of a sensor jammer or radar station, which either keeps friendlies off the map or detects bad guys.

[Haro]

Originally Posted by Lanka

I don't care how they do it, but 3~5 person buggies should be in the game.


Let's assume you're playing with few friends, manage to get squad of 5. How are you going to transport them to next battle? PS1 you could get couple of buggies and be on your way - in PS2 with current plan you'd need either Sunderer (that'd be half empty and likely expensive), arrange ride in Galaxy (doable, but not reliable solution. Also what when pilot says there's room for 5, and someone else jumps in leaving you with 4 slots? Just let the last guy in squad sit the battle out?) or get 5 Lightnings/ATVs (that isn't very sneaky..)

Game needs a vehicle that can transport small squad around.

I agree, if buggies make it in, I'd rather see a light reconnaissance transport than anything else. Give it advanced sensors or something more practical for larger battles, an AI/AA weapon of some effectiveness, high speed and a fair amount of endurance. Make em cheap and easy to come by.

I don't think a light combat buggy is really that effective, either in reality or in planetside. Mostly because people tend to move in great numbers and tend to concentrate around heavy vehicles, like tanks or heavy transport. So even if you're infantry hunting, the odds are good you'll wind up out of your weight class.

Modification could turn them into a light and fast AA buggy, or a heavier combat buggy that loses transport ability. But it needs to either do something very well or do a lot of things fairly well. Harassers were good against infantry, but so are tanks. On the other hand, tanks are good against harassers, not so much the other way around. Therefore, there really isn't a lot of demand for a harasser other than as a something to get from A to B, and you have ATVs for that.

[Hosp]

I have to jump on this bandwagon. I use every buggy in PS1 more often than not. Yes, I do have a vehicle favorite for my Command Harasser. Most people just underestimate their utility. So be it the first or second post in implementation, buggies need to make a comeback.

[Lanka]

Originally Posted by Haro

-- there really isn't a lot of demand for a harasser other than as a something to get from A to B, and you have ATVs for that.

True, but as stated by devs they're trying to make vehicles more than just taxis. Which is probably why the buggies got axed.

However moving small squad in just ATVs is even dumber idea than allowing some vehicle to be used just for taxi'ng between combats.

[Haro]

Originally Posted by Lanka

True, but as stated by devs they're trying to make vehicles more than just taxis. Which is probably why the buggies got axed.

However moving small squad in just ATVs is even dumber idea than allowing some vehicle to be used just for taxi'ng between combats.

Yeah, I'd rather see ATVs used as something like biker gangs or assault bikes from WH40k

I think resupply could be a good addition for buggies. Not quite the full suite of the sundy with repairs, healing, etc. but something that allows you to stock up on ammo on a large field battle.

The way I see combat unfolding in PS2, infantry are going to be much more important outside of the main bases, given that tanks are squishier and there are more vital capture points spread out over the field. I hope more transports act in a mechanized platoon style of play, not just a one way form of transportation but a constant presence, working in concert with infantry and other vehicles.

[Lanka]

Wondering if they could remove weapons from the ATVs (and maybe replace them with ammo cache or so)

Because in their current form ATVs make sense only for recon/getting infiltators in position.


The unguided rockets/machineguns would very well fit buggies.

[Sikee Atric]

A deffo for the future addition....

The quads by themselves provide little for the scouting force and these would bolster those roles for the quick attack.

[Malorn]

I have a hard time finding a niche that a buggy fills which the Lightning does not.

The Lightning has basically become the combat role of the buggy - it's fast, and it has a customizable turret, including a skyguard turret. The lightning is the Skyguard of PS2.

So as far as light vehicle support goes, that's the lightning and it's various versions. So buggies aren't light vehicle support. As far as transportation goes there is the sunderer and the flash. So it isn't purely transportation.

Maybe there's a gap between sunderer & flash for transportation of 3-5 players, like a Deliverer that could basically be a light buggy. But then its more of a transportation thing not a light vehicle support, in which case you're still probably better off just using a sunderer.

I just don't see a role for buggies anymore. The customizable lightning frame has made buggies obsolete. The light-fast-attack-vehicle niche they had in PS1 is filled by a better animal, and transport is better suited with the sunderer. So there's no good place for them.

[Lanka]

Originally Posted by Malorn

I have a hard time finding a niche that a buggy fills which the Lightning does not.

The Lightning has basically become the combat role of the buggy - it's fast, and it has a customizable turret, including a skyguard turret. The lightning is the Skyguard of PS2.

So as far as light vehicle support goes, that's the lightning and it's various versions. So buggies aren't light vehicle support. As far as transportation goes there is the sunderer and the flash. So it isn't purely transportation.

Maybe there's a gap between sunderer & flash for transportation of 3-5 players, like a Deliverer that could basically be a light buggy. But then its more of a transportation thing not a light vehicle support, in which case you're still probably better off just using a sunderer.

I just don't see a role for buggies anymore. The customizable lightning frame has made buggies obsolete. The light-fast-attack-vehicle niche they had in PS1 is filled by a better animal, and transport is better suited with the sunderer. So there's no good place for them.

That very much depends on how resource expensive (among other stats) the Sunderes will be. As I had the example of small squad to move around; if it'd cost tons of resources to get a Sunderer that'll be barely half full it makes no sense..