Infantry activities severely limited in this game

Beerbeer · 2012-12-18, 01:39 PM

Infantry activities are really constrained in this game. There are many reasons for this IMO, including base design and the over abundance of one-shot vehicles, which will naturally overshadow the infantry aspect since they are so easy to obtain and requires just one shot to kill infantry.

I would be naive to think I have the solutions...I don't, but I have some ideas.

First, many of my steam friends who tried and stopped playing, came to this game expecting an FPS game with vehicles. It's not, this is a vehicle game with infantry as the bait.

Now if this is their intention all along, then so be it, they are alienating a lot of "FPS" fans IMO and should be satisfied with the current population as I think most of the hard core people left playing, are vehicle first people, or, like myself, converts to it.

If not, something has to change and here are some ideas that have been floating around:

Now there are two schools of thought when it comes to this:

A. Vehicles should one-shot infantry or
B. Vehicles should not.

I don't care either way, but here are some suggestions:

For those who believe A:
Vehicles have to made rarer. Now there are many ways to achieve this:

(For one-man tanks and esfs only)
1. Put hard timers on these vehicles
2. Raise the resource price to make it that you can only have about one per hour in the best of conditions
3. Make them cost certs to use to achieve the same quantity

For those that don't believe vehicles should one-shot:
1. Lower damage across the board significantly
2. Raise health of these vehicles to compensate
3. Keep current resource costs so they can be spammed as-is

Base design goes without saying and is so poor, I really don't feel the need to even offer it as a suggestion.

We need a better balance. Things favor vehicles too much. Frankly, I am a hardcore infantry player who finds one-shotting infantry just too easy to even bother using my infantry guns. Please, we need a change.

Defcon I · 2012-12-18, 01:57 PM

I agree with this to a certain level. The launchers are comically underpowered. It takes 4 or 5 good hits to take out even a light tank. Plus they have virtually no splash damage making them useless against infantry as well. I know they are meant for the tanks, so they should either take less time to reload or do more damage. Often a tank im firing on is repaired fully by an engie in the amount of time it takes to reload.

However, the tanks seem to have very little splash damage as well. I am regularly standing in the open with explosions all around me, calmly reloading for the 10 mins it takes, taking no damage. Especially vs Vanu. Their shots are so slow, i have plenty of time to mosey out of range. When it is a dead on hit though, you are right, it is instant death. However this really makes sense, even with a shield that should kill you outright, a giant shot like that.

And the top weapons. HAHA, useless. The default gun is so slow and does such little damage, I don't think I've ever killed anything with it. It just gives me something to do while the tank I'm hitching a ride with gets to the battle late. Or the minigun with 30 rounds that fires for 1 second and has the biggest cone of fire I've ever seen. Another problem. Even though the tanks are so easy to get, people are so scared of losing them, only confidently charging when there are 20 other targets for the enemy. That's what i don't get, the infantry is no match for a tank and people wont go into a base and risk dying, even though the tank costs nothing.

So yea, I'm a bit annoyed by tanks in this game too. The air vehicles are so hard to master, that anyone who is good with them deserves to get kills. I think all of this was done to attempt to balance, but the tanks always win out because there are always more.

Want to have real fun with tanks? Just run people over. Way more entertaining. They never think you'll try it and there is no way to run away lol.

FreedomShot · 2012-12-18, 02:04 PM

Well a tank would one shot you if it hit even an armored human, so that needs to stay. You do not get vehicles inside bases do you? No that is where the infantry game is at. But I agree it could do with better lay outs. There was something more tactical in PS1 when holding position near the CC that you don't get in ps2.

Vehicals are fine and ps2 is vehicular based outside in the vast counts. Infantry outside on the icy slopes of esamir would be silly and unrealistic.

I say it is fine as it is but needs some work on the bases.

Ghoest9 · 2012-12-18, 02:16 PM

I would like to see some larger dense urban and ruins types areas that off only limited access for vehicles and cannons.

Like a biolab only 10 times larger.

FuzzyandBlue · 2012-12-18, 02:28 PM

The biggest problem with tanks in this game is there can be just as many tanks as infantry on the ground. Every tank can kill infantry with ease and without a single cert put into it. However if I want to kill tanks I either have to roll HA or a Max, or spend 600 certs on C4.

I have a huge issue with HE rounds. I think they should be replaced with some form of canister shot a short ranged Anti infantry tank weapon. Balance it however you want but a tank should have to put itself at risk to get infantry kills. I am tired of being picked off by tanks from 300 meters away.

I also wish I could damage a tank with my Rifle. I don't expect to kill a tank with 30 rounds from a carbine, but at least being able to damage them would be nice. If anyone played or plays Blacklight Retribution knows about the Hard suits. You can damage them with any gun but it takes hundreds of bullets to kill one, they then have a weak point that you can shoot to do more damage. I wouldn't mind a system like this with the tanks in this game.

Also launches need to be a lot stronger. It should not take 5 to 6 good hits to kill a tank, considering how many of them there are. I would say two shots to the rear or top of the tank, 3 to the sides and four to the front. All of this being without certs.

Canaris · 2012-12-18, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by FreedomShot

You do not get vehicles inside bases do you? No that is where the infantry game is at.

Vehicles are a common sight inside AMP stations and Techplants, heck sneaky folks can still maneuverer tanks into the dome section of biolabs with some crafty aerial work

Sledgecrushr · 2012-12-18, 03:03 PM

This is a combined arms game. And it is a sandbox environment. If everyone feels comfortable pulling tanks then why not. You would just wnd up with a bunch of esf blowing up the tanks. Then you end up with a bunch of max suits blowing up the esf. I kind of enjoy that huge sense of dread and urgency when the enemy zerg tank column has been spotted.

ringring · 2012-12-18, 03:13 PM

Don't change the damage of the rockets, leave then as it is. As it is infantry en masse and prepared can counter tanks quite easily. Unprepared , such as when spawning at an AMS is a different story.

Counter via engineering.
Allow engy's to deploy tank traps and allow engy's to deploy minefields. Both completely recognisable as PS1 solutions to setting up defences. Both make defender and also attackers think - surely a good thing.

Secondly (or lastly), nerf tanks. Too many are driving around as 1/2. Nerg the main weapon very hard, especially against other tanks and buff the second gun appropriately. Make it so that only a fool would try to go solo in a MBT.

maradine · 2012-12-18, 03:15 PM

Bury a few large bases on the next continent.

Beerbeer · 2012-12-18, 03:33 PM

One-shorting is a cheap mechanic and it will be taken advantage of by any player with the sense to do it. People vehicle camping can ruin a lot of people's fun

If people want to leave in one-man vehicles that can one-shot infantry in the game, then they shouldn't be so easily obtained. Too powerful. Make them rarer.

Aaron · 2012-12-18, 03:37 PM

Yeah, I feel like a vehicle snack playing as infantry. I wish there were more places that switched the battle to infantry vs infantry.

Dragonskin · 2012-12-18, 03:44 PM

The only thing I see with having more bases that are infantry only oriented is that those bases can lead to long stalemates and turn into meat grinders which seems to be something SOE doesn't want to happen.

Then you have the issue of people that want to just be in vehicles feel like they are largely useless in infantry centric battles... like Bio Labs already do.

If it was done right it would be interesting to have more infantry oriented bases added. Would have to be in either a large protected structure (Bio Lab style), in a giant building structure or under ground so that Air would be nuetralized too.

Bags · 2012-12-18, 04:01 PM

I miss the promise of 40% urban 60% open

it's more like

Biolabs, 99% the rest of the game

there's a reason I don't leave a tank. it's just not fun to infantry in this game IMO.

i'm hoping they add an underground base type or something. I don't like biolabs either, really. Too small. needs to be massive infantry only

Beerbeer · 2012-12-18, 06:00 PM

I feel the same way. I run tanks and esfs all of time because I know I can one shot infantry and there's nothing that limits me from doing it, so I do it.

Graywolves · 2012-12-18, 06:17 PM

There's Infantry and then there's what farms the infantry.

Yeah it's annoying, at first I enjoyed the challenge but it got pretty boring. Cleaning up infantry from a vehicle isn't very fun either (after you've done it a few times at least).

Sometimes I wonder if making trees more abundant would make it a little better. Most of the game is pretty wide and open with minimal cover and most of the hills are too steep at certain points to climb.