Underbarrel grenade launcher...

Babyfark McGeez · 2012-12-12, 02:43 AM

...what the heck.

I only recently certed into one, and i must say that thing is incredible easy-mode. Infact if i would have had it from start i would probably have some ridiculous k/d ratio.

Here are the main problems with it and why i think that "sidegrade" is nearly being an exploit:

- Top accuracy
- Instant kill without having to aim too hard
- Grenades don't cost ANY resources
- Grenades can be resupplied by ammo packs

Seriously, what were they thinking? I went from having a hard challenge in a 1v1 to never losing any 1v1 with that thing out.

Even though regular grenades are a bit more unpredictable and seem to have a larger splash radius, and restocking grenades with ammo packs does not allways work for whatever reason, this is just lame.
I nearly feel like a cheater playing with that thing.

Edit: Only downside is that it messes with keybindings and "adds" the launcher as "weapon 2", using "n" for alternative fire mode would have probably made too much sense.

Bocheezu · 2012-12-12, 03:11 AM

I tried it out on my medic and after realizing you could resupply from ammo packs (sometimes), I immediately bought it for engy and started supplying ammo to myself. I honestly couldn't believe you could resupply the grenades from an ammo pack. The thing is way overpowered and defending a tech plant is hilarious at times. Once the attackers get through the back doors and you don't need to worry about grief, just lob grenades all day from the staircases; usually good for 1-2 kills a pop until the thing doesn't resupply anymore and you have to go back to a terminal. Shooting from behind the teleport shield after the tech plant is lost is a gold mine as well (people just don't learn to stay away from those shields, I guess).

I fully expect it to get directly nerfed eventually (there is a related nerf later today with the flak armor improvement), but until then, I'm going to let the good times roll.

Wahooo · 2012-12-12, 03:18 AM

I use my 15 fps as an excuse to not feel bad about abusing the hell outta that thing. I figure the bug that stops allowing me to get ammo from the dropped packs is the game telling me i've abused easy mode to long and I have to find another weapon that i'm at risk of getting shot back in order to use.

JesNC · 2012-12-12, 03:26 AM

Yeah, they're great.

But no different in functionality than HA rockets.

TheSaltySeagull · 2012-12-12, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by JesNC

Yeah, they're great.

But no different in functionality than HA rockets.

Pretty much what he said. The grenade launcher is pretty much a poor mans version of the HA rocket launcher complete with the same bug that causes some of your rounds to be duds and deal no damage. There is also the reloading bug with ammo packs.

I dont really see the grenade launcher as much of an issue because it does not even work half the time. It does not do anything that the HA rocket launcher does not already do. And if it is that much of an issue for you then you can cert into flak armor which will be buffed soon. It has a smaller blast radius than most other explosives so you must get a direct hit or near direct hit to kill somebody. And only carries two rounds so in order to "spam" it you need to be literally hovering over an ammo pack(and then pray that it actually works).

Its a situational weapon that at times can feel a bit cheesy but then again so do several other weapons. At the end of the day I dont see it comparatively overpowered in the grand scheme of things and not in need of any nerf. I die far more frequently to HA rockets and hand grenades than I do the grenade launcher.

Wahooo · 2012-12-12, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by TheSaltySeagull

I die far more frequently to HA rockets and hand grenades than I do the grenade launcher.

there aren't enough forum threads crying about the op nature and skill-less spamming to farm kills of them yet. Once that heats up more people will cert them, hoping for an iwin button. It isn't that and the damage difference between these and hand nades is a good trade off, but more people will get them and certain areas will be silly with grenade launcher spam soon.

TheSaltySeagull · 2012-12-12, 04:45 AM

Originally Posted by Wahooo

there aren't enough forum threads crying about the op nature and skill-less spamming to farm kills of them yet. Once that heats up more people will cert them, hoping for an iwin button. It isn't that and the damage difference between these and hand nades is a good trade off, but more people will get them and certain areas will be silly with grenade launcher spam soon.

I dont really see it as the "iwin button" that you claim it to be. I have it on my carbine and did not see any significant KDR increase from it. Like I said it is a situational attachment that is only available on one weapon in each weapon family and takes up slots for commonly used attachments. In certain areas like the back doors of tech plants its cheesy but then again so are all of the explosive weapons. Hell you can park a HE lightning inside the back door and farm. Thats not an issue with the grenade launcher thats poor base design.

Rather than waste certs or station cash buying a specific gun and then spending more certs on the attachment you can use the HA default rocket launcher to do the exact same thing for free. I dont think you will see a mass influx of people certing the grenade launcher any time soon because its no more of an iwin button that any other explosive weapon. I dont see how the grenade launcher is any worse than HA rockets, hand grenades, HE rounds, etc etc.

Figment · 2012-12-12, 04:56 AM

Originally Posted by Wahooo

there aren't enough forum threads crying about the op nature and skill-less spamming to farm kills of them yet. Once that heats up more people will cert them, hoping for an iwin button. It isn't that and the damage difference between these and hand nades is a good trade off, but more people will get them and certain areas will be silly with grenade launcher spam soon.

I think a lot of people don't really realise yet how many easy one shot kill weapons there are.

The amount of skill required to kill targets in about a half year time will be significantly lower than now once everyone know which guns and attachments for whatever units kill fastest and in the largest quantities.

People defending these things have never seen Thumper spam apparently. OHK Thumper spam with infinite ammo pack at tech BD?

>_____<'

TheSaltySeagull · 2012-12-12, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

I think a lot of people don't really realise yet how many easy one shot kill weapons there are.

The amount of skill required to kill targets in about a half year time will be significantly lower than now once everyone know which guns and attachments for whatever units kill fastest and in the largest quantities.

People defending these things have never seen Thumper spam apparently. OHK Thumper spam with infinite ammo pack at tech BD?

>_____<'

Thumper spam was way worse because it had 6 rounds as opposed to one, plasma grenades prenerf would allow you to two shot multiple people at the same time, and PS1 base design was nothing but narrow corridors and stairways that promoted aoe spam.

But as you said this game is filled with one shot kill weapons so I dont see why people are calling the grenade launcher OP in light of the fact that there are multiple ways to farm easy and skill less kills in this game. This is not an issue unique to the grenade launcher and I dont see why people in this thread are trying to single it out as "op". Honestly if you wanna run around and noob tube people at a door way then pick HA and save yourself the certs/cash on the GL.

Wahooo · 2012-12-12, 05:16 AM

I didn't personally say it is OP, and what I said was, was with a lot of "OMG OP" forum threads people will pick it up HOPING for an iwin button. At that point you will start to see more deaths to it.

Like I said earlier the only reason I don't feel horrible about getting kills with it is because often enough i'm running with 15 fps or less and when I get to that point my K/D grunting is about 0.3.

Yes there are a lot of cheap weapons and OHK weapons, but the places I've found to abuse the noob tube? Are often easier (at least for me) to use the GL.

That's all.

Figment · 2012-12-12, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by TheSaltySeagull

Thumper spam was way worse because it had 6 rounds as opposed to one, plasma grenades prenerf would allow you to two shot multiple people at the same time, and PS1 base design was nothing but narrow corridors and stairways that promoted aoe spam.

But then there weren't up to 600 people using one hit kill on groups grenades in PS1 either.

I've killed more people with grenades in PS2 than in PS1. You may not have 6 grenades in a clip, but you hit for 6 grenades and with an ammo pack, you won't run out.

Get a few others with the same weapon next to you and Thumper spam will be child's play. :/

PS2's AoE covers larger parts of an area wrt PS1 as well, while the choke points are actually narrower (doorholes). And I don't yet want to think about how this will effect CC holds where you're holed up into small areas.

But as you said this game is filled with one shot kill weapons so I dont see why people are calling the grenade launcher OP in light of the fact that there are multiple ways to farm easy and skill less kills in this game. This is not an issue unique to the grenade launcher and I dont see why people in this thread are trying to single it out as "op". Honestly if you wanna run around and noob tube people at a door way then pick HA and save yourself the certs/cash on the GL.

I'm not singling it out, hence I made the generalization. There's just tons of them out there and it's really bothering me how little I have to do to get a kill. Well, aside from avoiding to use the NC machine guns, those do need work to kill with...

TheSaltySeagull · 2012-12-12, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

But then there weren't up to 600 people using one hit kill on groups grenades in PS1 either.

No but you had 200 people spamming 2 shot kill grenades that also had a dot effect firing them at a much faster rate.

I've killed more people with grenades in PS2 than in PS1. You may not have 6 grenades in a clip, but you hit for 6 grenades and with an ammo pack, you won't run out.

Ammo packs are horribly bugged for grenade launchers and you also have dud rounds. I have more kills to hand grenades in this game than PS1 but the thumper before the plasma nerf was far easier to get kills with for me.

Get a few others with the same weapon next to you and Thumper spam will be child's play. :/

I dont know I view current spam in this game as "childs play" when compared to attacking an interlink that had things like AI pounder max spam, lasher 2.0 spam, plasma spam etc etc.

PS2's AoE covers larger parts of an area wrt PS1 as well, while the choke points are actually narrower (doorholes). And I don't yet want to think about how this will effect CC holds where you're holed up into small areas.

I honestly think that aoe radius in ps1 was larger than PS2 aside from HE tank rounds. But then again this could also be that the entire base structure was literally nothing but small rooms and choke points so you could not avoid spam very easily while ps2 only has certain areas like that.

But this is not a spam comparison topic. Both games struggled with this issue and hopefully over time it gets ironed out. Flak armor buff is a step in the right direction to reduce damage from annoying explosive spam.

I'm not singling it out, hence I made the generalization. There's just tons of them out there and it's really bothering me how little I have to do to get a kill. Well, aside from avoiding to use the NC machine guns, those do need work to kill with...

I was not referring to you. But yes this is an issue with weapons in general being a little to lethal. I like low TTK in FPS but in a game of this scale where you have so many rounds going down range low TTK hurts the gameplay in my opinion. PS1 was way too slow in my opinion but ps2 is not a bit too fast and the devs need to find a bit of middle ground.

Babyfark McGeez · 2012-12-12, 05:59 AM

The reloading time of the rocket launcher is longer and you cannot fly around or resupply yourself with ammunition, so even though i agree that one-shotting ppl with rocket launchers is just as lame i still think the grenade launcher is even more cheap.

With ammo packs both end up filling the role of the thumper (i.e. continously spamming explosives) while having no real drawback.

Possible Solutions:
- Make grenades cost resources
- Reduce rocket damage against infantry
- Reduce splash damage range for grenades (/rockets)
- Disable grenades (/rockets) resupplying via ammo packs

Currently, why would anyone go with a regular gun in infantry combat? Grenade launchers are guaranteed kills, and that's what i don't like.

TheSaltySeagull · 2012-12-12, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by Babyfark McGeez

The reloading time of the rocket launcher is longer and you cannot fly around or resupply yourself with ammunition, so even though i agree that one-shotting ppl with rocket launchers is just as lame i still think the grenade launcher is even more cheap.

With ammo packs both end up filling the role of the thumper (i.e. continously spamming explosives) while having no real drawback.

Possible Solutions:
- Make grenades cost resources
- Reduce rocket damage against infantry
- Reduce splash damage range for grenades (/rockets)
- Disable grenades (/rockets) resupplying via ammo packs

Currently, why would anyone go with a regular gun in infantry combat? Grenade launchers are guaranteed kills, and that's what i don't like.

Rocket launchers have a larger blast radius and deal more damage making it little bit easier to score kills not to mention you have a larger ammo reserve as well as actual sights you can aim down to tube people at a longer range. They are also less buggy then grenade launchers now.

As for why you should or should not use them depends on playstyle and skill level. In the time it takes you to shoot reload and shoot again with a GL a decent marksman could have gunned down 3+ people in a single mag. Also if engaging at range other attachments like the grip will benefit you more.

While I agree noob tubing is lame I also think you are over stating how useful it is. Like I said I have the GL on my carb and my KDR did not suddenly spike by getting it. Yeah you can win some 1v1 or camp a door with it for some cheap kills like you can with a HA rocket launcher but there are situations where I would have rather had the grip for a bit more accuracy or would rather have had the faster ROF and reload speed from the default carb. The main reason I keep it honestly is because its easier to kill MAX units with it and you can also damage vehicles with it pretty well. Vs infantry it just seems kinda gimmicky to me and I would rather have a higher RoF weapon or a shot gun that is more reliable.

GrmlZ · 2012-12-12, 07:36 AM

Serious question to all fps developers that might read this.

The noobtube:
Why? why?! WHY?!