Countermeasures for fighters

FIREk · 2011-09-29, 02:28 PM

This is one of the things that Higby mentioned in one of his recent posts. This suggests we will once again have fire-and-forget weapons like the Striker.

Personally I thought they would go with BFBC2-like skill-based weapons (dumb-fire or laser/wire-guided).
On the other hand, it's hard enough to hit a Blackhawk with an AT4 in BFBC2, let alone hitting a small, fast-moving jet like a speed-customized Mosquito.
Plus, heat-seeking fire-and-forget weapons make a lot of sense in air combat.

I also wonder if all factions will have access to all forms of AV/AA weapons (dumbfire, laser-guided, fire-and-forget etc.), or if it will once again be different for all empires...

Discuss.

Xyntech · 2011-09-29, 02:53 PM

Well even with it's similarities to BFBC2, I think it's a safe bet to assume that a lot of stuff will be quite different. Maybe the guided missile mechanic will be similarly more modern, but I agree that there is still a lot of room for fire and forget missiles.

I am actually assuming that some AA customization options for the fighters will give them A2A rockets. Despite the fact that I love nailing a mossy or reaver with my own reavers rockets in PS1, it isn't usually the most effective tactic on an alert pilot, even less so when they beef of the flight system in PS2.

Didn't the devs say something somewhere about an empire specific variant on the chain gun for all 3 empires? If I'm remembering this correctly, it would tend to make me think they are wanting to avoid the balance nightmare of MCG vs Jackhammer vs Lasher to some degree. On that note, I would assume that all empires will get similar styles of weapon available to them with some slight variation to accentuate their empires characteristics and a lot of empire specific customization options to further differentiate them.

Tapman · 2011-10-09, 06:49 AM

When it comes to air-to-air combat, I want to be able to do this as my countermeasure:

Grognard · 2012-02-24, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Tapman

When it comes to air-to-air combat, I want to be able to do this as my countermeasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-wFI...layer_embedded

LOL...WTF???

Aractain · 2011-10-09, 06:58 AM

Just BTW, striker was manualy guided not fire and forget, Sparrow was. Remember when the striker was able to fire 3 missiles and THEN lock a target? You know, back when it was effective. :P

Redshift · 2011-10-09, 07:00 AM

I'd like to see all AA platforms with a choice of flak or missiles, and aircraft with a choice of countermeasures.

I'd like to see all AV weapons designed along the lines of the lancer, direct fire. maybe give the VS a constant beam weapon, the NC very fast missiles dumbfire missiles and the TR a kind of heavy autocannon

Aractain · 2011-10-09, 07:44 AM

Flak or Missiles is such a boring option.

Direct fire, Damage Clouds (Sky area denial), manualy guided, fire and forget and air mines are all options for dealing with flying targets.

I really hope the devs get this; Anti-Aircraft gameplay needs to be FUN. In PS1 it was terrible. Aircraft and AA need to have a back and forth gameplay style that resolves around aircraft trying to out manouver AA while trying to do what their role is (Anti-tank, bombing, shooting other aircraft etc).

If aircraft afterburn away at the first sign of lock-on the design is flawed. If flak kills bad pilots only its a failed design.

Direct fire such as the Zsu-23 give you the best skill based options. They allow you to lead the target with little warrning but give your position away with large tracers. (See Battelfeild europe for this kind of system working really well).

Area denial would be like a sky radiator gun, large clouds of badness that planes have to avoid. Probably a shotgun like weapon that fires 10 or so bubbles at different detonation ranges. If friendlys could fly through them it would make "air terrain" for enemies. More of a harrassment tool, a good secondary weapon type.

Fire and forget and manually guided missiles are obvious in design but timing the launch of the missiles and how the warnning sound was generated could make it interesting. I.e. a fire and forget system could make the target know they are locked on from the painting section where as the manually guided system could only let them know if there is a missile in flight etc.

Air mines are obivous and COOL. Probably blinking lights on them to show thier position.

Countermesures would then have to be a choice, a trade off to which AA type you want to be most resistant to.
Against direct fire/flak system you could have a jamming device that puts multiple copies of your plane (with same direction etc) on their screen so they don't know which one is real.
Against close range missiles/mines you could have EMP blast which knocks them out (100% chance). Very effective but timing intensive.
Obiovusly the classic flare/chaff (flares are heat sources to defeat IR seekers and chaff is bits of metal that confuse radar guided systems so these are just 'countermesures' in games) that has a chance to lure missiles in range.
Then theres the "ECM" which would stop AA systems from fireing for a couple of seconds (which wouldn't be able to be stacked by multiple aircraft).

So apparently there was some text there so this is the TL;DR: Make the AA and dealing with AA as aircraft fun this time plz.

Redshift · 2011-10-09, 08:11 AM

I would hate to be the dev in charge of trying to balance that lot

Xyntech · 2011-10-09, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Aractain

Make the AA and dealing with AA as aircraft fun this time plz.

That sounds like it could also give some interesting sidegrade unlockables for AA equipment.

It does kinda suck a bit when flying is either a matter of being completely safe or just turns into getting out of dodge, with no real gameplay in between aside from dog fighting.

Some interesting ideas.

Senyu · 2011-10-09, 09:27 AM

I dont mind terribly forget me not missles. But as the pilot I would like it if there was ways to still avoid them, such as very good piloting skills around objects(bases, forests, cliffs) that your pretty much cant fight because ur so busy trying to lose the missle on your butt.

CutterJohn · 2011-10-09, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Xyntech

It does kinda suck a bit when flying is either a matter of being completely safe or just turns into getting out of dodge, with no real gameplay in between aside from dog fighting.

Thats why direct fire is so superior to lock on and, to a lesser extent, flak. You can introduce damage degradation if needed, and shots are more difficult to hit with at range, meaning the danger the AA represents gradually escalates as you near it. In PS1, the lock on AA was 100% effective at range, and the flak based only slightly less effective due to the huge aoe on the blasts. It made them far too effective at covering far too large an area.

Brusi · 2011-10-09, 11:56 PM

Air to ground missiles that counter-lock-on to whoever/whatever is currently targeting and locked on to you.

CutterJohn · 2011-10-10, 12:50 AM

Oooh.. Wild Weasels. Nice idea.

Traak · 2011-10-09, 10:00 AM

We could deploy barrage balloons for "airea" denial. The cables would be hazardous, too. Or the Laser Tractor Beam Glowing Anchor Things, if cables are just too low-tech.

I like the idea of air mines. Nice thing to put in clouds.

2coolforu · 2011-10-09, 02:06 PM

Flares should be in the game because it looks awesome during dogfights and people expect to see them. I think missiles should be blocked by terrain though, nothing like the sparrow and its magical ability to phase through mountains.

Perhaps a balancing factor for countermeasures would be for infantry to be able to carry a MANPADS style AA weapon?