Oh, The Velocity!

Palerion · 2013-07-09, 09:33 PM

No Flame. Please.

I've been playing quite a bit of Light Assault lately, and have been having trouble with the carbines. Well, I always have had trouble with them, but I think, after a little bit of experimentation, I have found out why I can't stand using them:

It's the velocity. Of course, that combined with some frustrating recoil; the crappy part is, those two qualities seem to be inherent traits of being a Terran. Anyway, carbines always have bad velocity, but it's made worse on Terran carbines (correct me if I'm wrong), and that, combined with the recoil that Terran engis and LAs are damned with, formulates a perfectly frustrating weapon (at least when you're shooting past ten meters at a moving target).

Again the weapons have always irritated me, since I never felt that reload speed and hip-fire accuracy were remotely as useful as the ranged damage, high bullet velocity, tighter cone-of-fire (in ADS), and more manageable recoil (if you're a Terran) of assault rifles. Because when I'm in range for hipfire, the cone of fire generally doesn't matter much. Hip firing at longer range (10-20 meters?), even with the small COF of a carbine, is very hard and arguably impractical.

So the weapons still get screwed in velocity, accuracy, and sometimes recoil. I'm just saying, as a Terran, my carbines feel awful. I'm not asking for assault rifles or super-carbines, I just don't feel like what I'm dealing with right now is, as carbines are "supposedly" intended to be, weapons that rise above the rest in close-medium range. Right now I'm sticking to shotguns, as at least they seem to have an area where they can claim the throne.

Anyone else feeling this? And if you play NC or VS, I've played with and am much more comfortable generally with your carbines, as they don't suffer as much from the velocity and recoil that the TR carbines suffer from.

Word Of Madness · 2013-07-09, 09:48 PM

Sounds like you should give the T5 AMC a shot. It's got the highest bullet velocity of any carbine, it's also pretty accurate and has relatively easy to manage recoil. It suffers at close distances, but then you've the Jag, Lynx, SMGs and shotguns for that.

As far as comparisons to other empires go, I like the Serpent and Jaguar best in close quarters, and the Pulsar C for everything else.

AThreatToYou · 2013-07-09, 10:00 PM

Wow, the T5 AMC does have pretty good velocity.

Anyway, I've always known that TR carbines were a tad shitty. It's good to know that TR have a velocity disadvantage...

Isokon · 2013-07-09, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Palerion

It's the velocity. Of course, that combined with some frustrating recoil; the crappy part is, those two qualities seem to be inherent traits of being a Terran. Anyway, carbines always have bad velocity, but it's made worse on Terran carbines (correct me if I'm wrong), and that, combined with the recoil that Terran engis and LAs are damned with, formulates a perfectly frustrating weapon (at least when you're shooting past ten meters at a moving target)

I am not convinced the small velocity disadvantage (2%-5% to their counterparts) for most TR carbines is as much of a problem as you make it out to be, given the close-medium identity of the weapon type.
Also, as Word of Madness pointed out, the T5 AMC is the carbine with the highest velocity in game. The NC have a close second in the Razor GD-23. while the VS have nothing that comes even close...

Palerion · 2013-07-10, 12:19 AM

It's the velocity disadvantage combined with the recoil. Where a TR carbine will get it right in one aspect, it will fall short in the other; for instance, the LC3 Jaguar. Great recoil, velocity abysmal. The Lynx does mediocre on velocity, on par I suppose with the VX6-7, but the recoil is a huge problem there; though it may appear the same on stat sheets at a glance, it's far more prominent, varying from a 35-45 degree angle. The small stats make a big difference, and that recoil makes ADS nothing short of useless.

And, quite frankly, a 2-5% difference is very noticeable when your velocity data is varying between 400 and 600.

Also, apparently any carbine with a high rate of fire has to have low velocity; except for the GD-7F. In my opinion that weapon has ideal stats, if I hadn't blown time and money on my TR player I would switch factions just for the carbine selections of the NC, or even the VS, as I love the VX6-7 too. There just aren't any carbines for the TR that click like those two weapons do. As a matter of fact, most weapons from the other factions are well balanced to the point that their flaws can be easily compensated for. In general, the TR carbines all fall terribly short in one way or another, especially for someone like me who prefers a relatively high rate of fire (the Terran Republic's main trait?).

Velocity is just a characteristic of weaponry that is often overlooked; I never found it to be a big deal on battlefield unless I was firing long range, but with the TR carbines and their recoil, it is a pretty big problem.

Phreec · 2013-07-10, 01:22 AM

What? A TR praising other factions carbines?

All carbines have lacking velocity simply because they're carbines, compact assault rifles. There are sidegrades that have further effective range but they're still underperforming when compared to e.g. Assault rifles.

The GD-7F is terrible at range. It blooms very fast, shakes a lot and doesn't deal much damage. It's a CQC carbine so the higher velocity is a wasted trait. I'd much rather pick the Jaguar or Lynx over it.

Vashyo · 2013-07-10, 02:07 AM

Jaguar and Lynx seem to still be the best carbines in the game judging by kills/hour
http://ps2-stats.com/weapon/infantry...e/all/per-hour

LeilaniRock · 2013-07-10, 05:29 AM

T5 AMC,Compensator,advanced foregrip,HV-Ammo.This setup is absolutely a beast,go try it out. I play all three factions and i think the TR Carbines play really fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Obstruction · 2013-07-10, 06:28 AM

GD-7F is pretty sweet at range if you use it the right way.

you can't just hit some guy standing down range, no. but what you can do, is see some poor bastard trying to run cross range, and put that cone of fire (read: wall of lead) right where he's about to be running. it puts so much lead there so fast that he won't know what hit him. it's really good for yoinking the kill out from under some other guy plinking at a target with something more controlled.

the GR-22 AR feels similiar when you play medic on NC. it's a little wild but you can use that once you know that spray pattern.

you could market those guns as scrub-removers. just point the nozzle at the affected area, depress the actuator, and apply liberally. repeat as necessary.

wait, this was about TR. yeah since i started playing TR i don't infantry so much. i like the T9 Carv and whatever the basic medic gun is called. Cycler? whatever. but on LA and Engi i stick with SMG or Shotgun and avoid ranged conflict.

i ran with the T5 AMC for a minute, but i think the damage at range is just not good enough. then i tried the lynx because i figured it might be the equivalent to the GD-7F and i couldn't have been more disappointed.

diLLa · 2013-07-10, 07:37 AM

Not to sound like an asshole, but by looking at your personal stats (xp/hour, k/d) you probably have an issue with shooting in general, hardly the carbines to blame..

Just practice more bro!

Palerion · 2013-07-10, 10:17 AM

Failed attempt to not sound like an asshole. Good try :P

People picking apart my stats to prove a point gets kind of old; might as well just remove my sig.

I don't care about my stats; half the time in-game I'm just goofing off. Experimenting in VR arena, if I'm in combat I don't try too hard because I just don't find it rewarding.

And of all stats to point out: kill/death? Unless you're a tryhard, you probably don't care about that statistic at all.

Back on topic. I do have VS and NC characters, mind you, and have thoroughly tested their weapons in the VR before positing this. Also worth noting, I only posted this after confirming it with other players and observing similar complaints in other threads. I'm just suggesting that maybe these carbines fall short in a few too many areas (velocity, recoil, COF) to make them very effective whatsoever.

AThreatToYou · 2013-07-10, 10:20 AM

I don't care about my stats; half the time in-game I'm just goofing off. Experimenting in VR arena, if I'm in combat I don't try too hard because I just don't find it rewarding.

Sir, you are what is technically referred to as a "Noob". This is not to be confused with a "newb".

I'm oft to agree with you, but this time, fuck off balance discussions if you don't play seriously.

Isokon · 2013-07-10, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Palerion

Back on topic. I do have VS and NC characters, mind you, and have thoroughly tested their weapons in the VR before positing this. Also worth noting, I only posted this after confirming it with other players and observing similar complaints in other threads. I'm just suggesting that maybe these carbines fall short in a few too many areas (velocity, recoil, COF) to make them very effective whatsoever.

May I ask you how exactly you tested somthing like the effect bullet velocity has on your accuracy on moving targets in an environment with only static targets?

Palerion · 2013-07-10, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

Sir, you are what is technically referred to as a "Noob". This is not to be confused with a "newb".

I'm oft to agree with you, but this time, fuck off balance discussions if you don't play seriously.

Excuse me, but really what the hell? If you can't tell I'm a tad irritated when I'm confronted with blanket statements based on my stats that generalize me as incapable of handling a virtual firearm.

If I may clarify my previous post, I don't try hard to preserve my stats. I still play for the better of the team, but I'm not one to obsess over my kill/death and xp/hour. These statistics do not reflect how capable of a player I am. Or even how much effort I make to help my team. My point is, stats aren't where I put my effort, don't pick them apart and generalize me because of them.

I'm really not trying to say I don't care about the game.

Does that re-validate my participation in this discussion, or should I still fuck off?

Palerion · 2013-07-10, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Isokon

May I ask you how exactly you tested somthing like the effect bullet velocity has on your accuracy on moving targets in an environment with only static targets?

Weapon trials.