The sniper nerf.

[Taramafor]

They're going to make BOLT ACTIONS NOT KILL AT LONG RANGE. Defeating the whole purpose of being a proper sniper. To get in a kill you must headshoot at LESS - yes, LESS - then 150m. A sniper rifle is a sniper rifle and shouldn't act like... Well, a none scoped rifle.

Meaning semi auto for long range as a bolt will never kill anyone at long range, defeating the purpose of having a bolt unless you're in the 150m mark, where semi auto's are more useful anyway (Way to get people to not buy weapons). Do the devs even know how difficult it is to get in an effective shot at such long range? First of all, you have to make sure they're not moving for an easy kill. And even if they ARE moving, that makes it even MORE difficult to shoot them as you're already having to look up and keep the target at the bottom of your crosshair (if not off the crosshair altogether), attempting to compensate for distance all the while. All while holding your breath and hoping you get the shot in time before the scope sways like crazy.

Now granted, snipers can be annoying in certain games (see Heroes and Generals for an example. Lots of wide open space with little cover would be why) but we're talking about a game with multiple classes and vehicles and lots of people. And, you know, buildings and rocks for cover. It can suck to get snipped at by some guy from a hill, but you can always grab a tank with HE rounds, or snipe yourself, or grab an aircraft (the number of times I landed behind one before disposing of them...), or, you know, MOVE IN AND TRY TO FLANK, which is what people are not doing because most of the game is a short attention span twitch fest. But there is strategy and tactics involved and getting off your ass and pulling yourself away from the main unit/zerg/battle for awhile to make surgical strikes is what can turn the tide of battle. I see this nerf doing much more harm then any good, taking away a threat and making infiltrators all but useless unless you stick with SMG's, which I would have PREFERRED to have been taken away instead as that would then mean an infiltrator has a useful roll which is different from close range killing which all classes can do. Not saying they should though as I can understand that people have been using them and are liking them, but an infiltrator with an SMG is more annoying then one with a sniper to me (the excuse for this nerf is that being snipped at long range is annoying). But it's war. Tank HE spam, again, annoying. But it's war. Libs? Hate the things when they have rockets (Splash damage reaches through doors) but again, war. Heavy using super shield when I'm not one? Yep, same there. Or worse, meeting a max as a none max without a rocket launcher? Yep, same there. But the point is it's a battlefield and it should act as one and bad things should happen. And snipers are one of those bad things (for better and for worse) and it's not like only one side has them. But for crying out loud, this damage reduction at range just makes no sense as it forces people to use only semi auto sniper rifles at long range as that's the ONLY way you'll even have a CHANCE at getting in that second shot, and if you miss (which you probably will having let the target know he's getting shot at now), he'll most likely just get healed before moving along. I was just getting into the sniper role and now that role has been stomped on and this might be something that'll put me off playing truth be told (the only thing keeping me going is the outfit and a hope of the game getting proper content added at some point). And as for those "boo hoo, sniped at long range complaints" look as what a sniper has to deal with at close range (which is mandatory to capture a point). And of course, let's not forget that they'll rarely looking behind them, leading back to flanking.

So to sum it all up, rant, range logic, rant, make time to eliminate them instead of ignoring them, rant, range logic again, rant, inefficient at short range, rant rant rant, flank.

Could have probably ranted less there but damn this makes me mad and I'm going to tell it like it is.

P.S: Thread made to prevent complaints of this leaking into other threads (which it most certainty has. The patch updates was nothing but complaints about the nerf). So post what you think of the possible (already implemented?) nerf here.

[Dougnifico]

Hey man, I advocated that all bolt-action head shots should be insta-kills and that a bipod/tripod should be available. Be careful, I was damn near crucified. lol

[HereticusXZ]

Just like in the other thread about it...

150m is BS, that's not Sniping, at all, don't kid yourself. Playing a Sniper is about extreme range, slow, single head shot kills.

250m might be generous in a Snipers tolerance but any "Single Head Shot Kill" should NOT be limited in range or damage with Sniper Rifle because they struggle as is to impact a battle beyond thinning the herd at the attackers Sunderer Spawn, Picking off Heavy Lock-On nests, Eliminating enemy Engineer Turrets, or Counter Sniping.

New base designs as is favor Close Quarters Combat and severely cripple if not all out deny a Snipers talents completely, forcing them to hide outside the facility where the Vehicles want to fight.

Nerfing a Snipers Single Shot Head kill is a lazy solution IMO to solve a petty complaint "I had no defense to a Sniper when I was standing still, He one shot my face! That's not fair!", Hmmmm, bullets in the head shouldn't kill?

What I suggest to solve the average Infantryman's complaint to Snipers would be new Suit slots. If Flak protects against explosions and Nanoweave protects from small arms, then "Reinforced Helmets" will protect against head shots, make it a cert line like everything else with varrying degrees in resistance.

Other solutions include Shield Yawnings for AMS Sunderer to protect Infantry as they spawn (Some people might remember the energy shields the AMS Galaxy had in Beta), Sunderer Defensive Slot Stealth Field just like in PS1, or Engineers Deployable Shield Barricade to replace Turrets. All of these are creative and simple additions to solve your Sniper problem, Not nerfing the Sniper.

I don't want the 150m Sniper Head Shot limit and it feels like to me that PS2 is drifting further and further away from diverse massive battles and instead forcing the majority into CQC or not at all.



In all reality though it looks like every Sniper or Long-Range player came out of the wood work and complained about the "possible, still in concept stage" nerf with no one in the "Snipers OP" camp contesting them. Though nothings official I wouldn't be surprised if they abandoned the Sniper nerf entirely.

[almalino]

It is so difficult to headshot moving target from any distance and especially hard from 150+ distance and yet they remove that ability from us snipers? Lame.

Anyway, I'm much better sniper now with Engi Mana turret noways 1 hit kill with guided endless misles from miles away - priceless. And I can kill vehicles too. Why bother about snipers at all?

[ZephyrBurst]

I was okay with the 150m limit at first, given that Infiltrators have cloaks, but that's not really related. I'm fairly against the range limit as of the last week. Lately I've been going back to long range sniping (250m-300m out) and thinking about this upcoming change while doing so, and it feels like the change isn't well thought-out and panders to complaints from bad players. I feel if there just has to be a limit, 250m is fair... I suppose.

There's just so many moments in the last week where my sniping would have been fairly useless in slowing the enemy down. HA and engineer nests have been my prime targets lately and this change would have made my role ineffective for no reason. I was out 280m from the targets. There was little chance to get in closer to that 150m range. Sure I could find a way around, but that would have taken far too much time given that terrain. My goal was to remove as many AV as fast as possible. 150m is simply not enough distance.

[Plaqueis]

If/when this nerf comes, they should refund the bought weapons and wasted certs on the people who have invested on the ability to use sniper-rifles as they're supposed to. I've bought V10, Parallax and Rams .50 bolt-actions and certed both 10x and 12x scopes for all of them. This nerf makes them completely useless.

Hell, they're underperforming as it is; 1st, the rendering range already limits the full use of the magnification of the said scopes. 2nd, it's ridiculously hard to aim at anything with in the timewindow of 'holdbreath'. 3rd, there's practically no real cover anywhere on any of the 3 continents, only cover you have is the cloak and camo (which really isn't much). 4th, (i'm so gettin heat from saying this), the weapons are already too weak. Hell, the Rams is supposed to be a 50cal.. i mean go on youtube and do a search for 50cal/12,7mm rifles and see what they're really capable of (iirc the longest confirmed kill with Barrett was almost 3000 meters...) Their performance in game is pathetic to say the least...

I have 1800+ kills with v10, few hundred with both Parallax and Rams, and almost every single one were on static targets at current max range (few lucky shots on moving ones here and there). If they shorten their range even more, the bolt-actions will be completely useless, i can't even imagine using a semi-auto from that close, you'd be better off with some hard hitting LMG/Battle rifle with 4x/6x sights...

[Thunderhawk]

I cannot envisage any possible reason why OHK above 150m (on heads only no less) will be removed from the game....

I really cannot fathom the reasoning behind this, bad move by the devs

[synkrotron]

I'm newly into sniping and I have come to find it addictive almost to the point that it is now my default class if I am "operating" alone. Just so you know where I stand with the class...

So, I too cannot understand why one hit headshot kills should be removed over a certain distance.

I can assure anyone who has never tried sniping that it is, in itself, limited over distance, for all of the reasons expressed above (holding breath, moving targets, bullet drop etc. etc.).

And I have to agree with all of what Taramafor has written in his long post there. Every word... no exception.

[War Barney]

I know! and they nerfed every other gun in the game a while ago to not get easy 1 shot kills with no risk at all! they should make every gun in the game 1 shot kill so its all balanced!!

Please stop crying that you can't 1 shot kill people with no risk at all... its a complete and utter joke that you think its ok to kill people from a distance so great that nobody has a clue you are even there. Just accept that you wont be able to get kills with lucky head shots now. You do realise that most of the time people are injured anyway so its not even going to be that bad, the only thing it really affects in rambo snipers roaming around 1 shotting people then stealthing away.

If you want 1 shot kills over a certain range you must also surely support 1 shot kills from shotguns below a certian range, after all its far more risky to get in close to hit people so if anything you must support 1 shot kills with a shotgun even not hitting the head.

[almalino]

Originally Posted by War Barney

If you want 1 shot kills over a certain range you must also surely support 1 shot kills from shotguns below a certian range, after all its far more risky to get in close to hit people so if anything you must support 1 shot kills with a shotgun even not hitting the head.

No risk? If you get spotted enemy snipers will start hunting you. They can shoot you the same way you can shoot them. I see no problem here. snipers have a lot of risk and spend a lot of time to get to a good point for sniping.

With your logic we must ban all aircraft because they can kill me and I cannot kill them as a sniper.

[War Barney]

Originally Posted by almalino

No risk? If you get spotted enemy snipers will start hunting you. They can shoot you the same way you can shoot them. I see no problem here. snipers have a lot of risk and spend a lot of time to get to a good point for sniping.

With your logic we must ban all aircraft because they can kill me and I cannot kill them as a sniper.

Is an aircraft really small and capable of stealth? didn't think so...

[almalino]

Originally Posted by War Barney

Is an aircraft really small and capable of stealth? didn't think so...

Aircraft has better abilities. It can fly very fast and appear from any direction in a blink of an eye. Sniper cannot do that.

[Taramafor]

Originally Posted by War Barney

Is an aircraft really small and capable of stealth? didn't think so...

Does small arms fire counter a lib with rockets? didn't think so. Guess we should take away lib rockets because I'm 100% dead if I'm not a HA with asp or infiltrator. Boo hoo, no risk for lib. Either way, your comment has no merit as we're talking about killing and snipers, not clocking away (which is an ability an infiltrator has that one could use while sniping, but not in the example you have provided in the infiltrator/lib case).

Please stop trolling and be constructive with your comments. As for "no risk", there's plenty of risk with a sniper rifle at close range. And as I've already stated, snipers at long range rarely look behind them. Plus there's the fact that they can't tackle armor whatsoever, which balances out the class IMO (I've stumbled on suns/tanks uncloaked as an infiltrator and could do nothing. Even medics get C4).

[Badjuju]

At the very minimum snipers should be able to counter other snipers at range with one shot. I can see some arguments for this nerf as I have become very proficient at sniping enemies at range, moving or not. Im sure my harassment gets annoying. However it is incredibly rewarding when you make those more difficult shots, id hate to see that go.

I would advocate that they extend the range where you can one shot, or perhaps have no range limits, but give bolt actions a decent increase in bullet drop. This would make ranged shots trickier while also making other sniper rifles a little more relevant. Sniping is fairly easy in this game do to lack of drop, so I think they have plenty of room to make it more of a challenge before out right nerfing effectiveness overall.


Not all is lost though as the nano changes are amazing. I love close range sniping so ill be a happy boy in those regards.

[Timealude]

sad thing is with this nerf, there will be no effective ways to take out engy turrets without pulling some tank or using a rocket launcher and with the new changes to the recon dart, your pretty much useless at 150m