Much Ado About Nerfing?

DovahTerran · 2013-06-03, 12:18 PM

I'm just gonna put it straight: the game is fine, guys.

Over the last 3 days I've had more fun playing this game than I ever have had before.

I've fought (and killed, as a TR Medic and even Infie with SMG in close-quarters combat) ZOE maxes. If people work as a team, MAXes are no problem. It can be done.

There are a few balance issues that need adjusting. I'm not denying that. And I would adore them fixing the apparent performance deficiency in AMD processors that's been around for a long time. But, can anyone agree with me that the game has actually reached a state where it's just enjoyable to play regardless of it's flaws?

Since the Connery-Helios merge, all 3 continents have constant battles. Not just on Indar. The server is alive and well, as far as I can see. I can pick and choose my battles, not just force myself to fight for XP at the Crown. It's fun.

I think the doom and gloom aspect that I see a lot of the time is kind of overdone.

shocker. I don't pander to SOE's marketing techniques or dev team, they drive me nuts sometimes. But Higs, TRay and the whole team have worked MIRACLES in marketing, publicity and every other aspect relative to PS1. We are actually helping to shape the game's future, one bit at a time. Heck, I still get people that say "There was a PlanetSide 1? Where?" Whereas nowadays we've got a great game and a pretty decent-sized population. Enjoy it.

/Rant

Timealude · 2013-06-03, 03:03 PM

and there you have it. /golfclap

Mastachief · 2013-06-03, 03:27 PM

It was but ZOE broke fighting the VS.

Zoe and Lockdown bursters are simply a pisstake when the NC has no equivalent.

And the fracture splash reminds me of the ps1 pounder of old.

So no they still need to swing the nerf bat a little but they are close.

Zar · 2013-06-03, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Mastachief

It was but ZOE broke fighting the VS.

Zoe and Lockdown bursters are simply a pisstake when the NC has no equivalent.

And the fracture splash reminds me of the ps1 pounder of old.

So no they still need to swing the nerf bat a little but they are close.

I remember the pounder of old splash killing people fracture splash is weak and short does a whole 25 dmg i could get away from that after taking 6 splash shots with half my health .... how is that dangerous O.o people get freaked out by it ill give you that but by no means is it dangerous. nerf the splash if you want doesn't bother me any its less then worthless as is but fun to see people who think it isn't xD by all means run in the open due to 25 splash dmg then ill give you something to fear =3

Galron · 2013-06-03, 05:23 PM

Connery has been great since the merge and lattice. I've been playing a lot more too.

OCNSethy · 2013-06-04, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by DovahTerran

I'm just gonna put it straight: the game is fine, guys.

Over the last 3 days I've had more fun playing this game than I ever have had before.

I've fought (and killed, as a TR Medic and even Infie with SMG in close-quarters combat) ZOE maxes. If people work as a team, MAXes are no problem. It can be done.

Now my Battle Brother, please share your tactics to lay low these heretical battle mechs?

Brusi · 2013-06-04, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by Mastachief

And the fracture splash reminds me of the ps1 pounder of old.

Fracture has splash?

OCNSethy · 2013-06-04, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by Brusi

Fracture has splash?

If it does, its pretty weak.

PredatorFour · 2013-06-04, 06:51 AM

Yes it does have splash and it may be weak but when you have two lockdown maxes on the roof above the spawn teleporter room in a bio lab pounding the entrance, you sure know about it lol.

Gatekeeper · 2013-06-04, 07:15 AM

The Fracture does have splash, but it's very weak. Comets, Falcons or Ravens would all be stronger area-denial options IMO.

Personally I don't think there's a problem with the Fracture (or the Raven) - the only real balance issue with the new AV weapons is that the Vortex is too weak against infantry compared to the other two, and the Fracture completely eclipses the useless Pounder. I'd say buff the Pounder and the Vortex, and leave the other MAX AV weapons as-is.

As for comparisons with PS1 balance - I remember courtyards locked down by AOE Burster spam from the surrounding hills. Nothing in PS2 is quite that bad yet

Stardouser · 2013-06-04, 07:23 AM

Nothing is a problem individually if you work as a team. This, however, is an MMO, if each individual overpowered VS unit requires a team to kill then eventually the other empires run out of teams.

Gatekeeper · 2013-06-04, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Nothing is a problem individually if you work as a team. This, however, is an MMO, if each individual overpowered VS unit requires a team to kill then eventually the other empires run out of teams.

Fair point, but I've not seen anything (outside of whining on this forum) to suggest that ZOE is anything like that powerful.

MAXs are strong units anyway, and it's not as if non-ZOE MAXs struggle to get kills - or as if ZOE MAXs carry the battle single-handed. It's possible ZOE might be a little OP, but it's far from the balance-annihilating juggernaut that some people are making it out to be.

Since it's been introduced I've seen more VS MAXs on the field (both with and without ZOE), and I suspect that's what's making people cry - because they didn't realise that VS MAXs are actually decent and they're not used to fighting them.

Mastachief · 2013-06-04, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Fair point, but I've not seen anything (outside of whining on this forum) to suggest that ZOE is anything like that powerful.

MAXs are strong units anyway, and it's not as if non-ZOE MAXs struggle to get kills - or as if ZOE MAXs carry the battle single-handed. It's possible ZOE might be a little OP, but it's far from the balance-annihilating juggernaut that some people are making it out to be. Again with the little op thing, it's not a little op it is op and the becomes exponential within this game of massive numbers and low ttk the zoe max really does break the game.

Since it's been introduced I've seen more VS MAXs on the field (both with and without ZOE), and I suspect that's what's making people cry - because they didn't realise that VS MAXs are actually decent and they're not used to fighting them.

http://www.twitch.tv/glorinfps/c/2367691

Removing the mobility penalty that balanced maxes and then making them faster along with a damage increase is definitely overpowered. Again with the little op thing, it's not a little op it is op and this becomes exponential within this game of massive numbers and low ttk the zoe max really does break the game.

As for the fracture max yes 25 damage may seem small on its own but when every tr rolls a fracture because it's equally great at anti infantry, anti vehicle and area denial. Add to that it is seldom 1 max spamming it 5-6-7-8 at a time not only this but the spam being so rapid means you take indirect damage approaching a choke direct damage in the choke and more indirect damage leaving the choke. Simply put the fracture is not quite on balance with the VS and NC equivalents.

Whiteagle · 2013-06-04, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Mastachief

Zoe and Lockdown bursters are simply a pisstake when the NC has no equivalent.

I kinda agree...
While the Shield is a nice utility, it doesn't really match up to the offensive boost the other two Factions get.

...I'd give them something like "Power Redistribution," something that ups their projectile speed and damage at the cost of sluggish movement.

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Personally I don't think there's a problem with the Fracture (or the Raven) - the only real balance issue with the new AV weapons is that the Vortex is too weak against infantry compared to the other two, and the Fracture completely eclipses the useless Pounder. I'd say buff the Pounder and the Fracture, and leave the other MAX AV weapons as-is.

Hell just buff the Pounder and the Vortex, I'm fine with the Fracture staying where it is!

I wouldn't even mind a slight nerf to magazine size just to reduce the effectiveness against Infantry, ten rounds default is a bit much...

Gatekeeper · 2013-06-04, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Mastachief

http://www.twitch.tv/glorinfps/c/2367691

Removing the mobility penalty that balanced maxes and then making them faster along with a damage increase is definitely overpowered. Again with the little op thing, it's not a little op it is op and this becomes exponential within this game of massive numbers and low ttk the zoe max really does break the game.

As for the fracture max yes 25 damage may seem small on its own but when every tr rolls a fracture because it's equally great at anti infantry, anti vehicle and area denial. Add to that it is seldom 1 max spamming it 5-6-7-8 at a time not only this but the spam being so rapid means you take indirect damage approaching a choke direct damage in the choke and more indirect damage leaving the choke. Simply put the fracture is not quite on balance with the VS and NC equivalents.

I don't really see how one video proves anything TBH - sure, that guy is awesome at the game and gets a ton of kills. But I don't doubt you could find other videos of people managing similar feats with LMGs, SMGs, shotguns, or whatever - would that prove that those things were completely OP?

Personally I'll reserve judgement until I see some hard stats - do ZOE MAXs get a lot more kills on average? How much of a buff does ZOE actually provide to various weapon types, and how much extra damage do they take themselves?

The MAXs I see using ZOE don't seem to be achieving any more than those without - and I've certainly never seen a single ZOE clear out a whole area like in that video.

As for Fractures. Meh. If there are 5-8 MAXs holding a choke-point, I don't have a problem with infantry dying when they try to push through it. What's the balance issue there exactly?

The Fracture is clearly a lot better than the Vortex at AI, but it seems about on par with the Raven, and (based on the number of times I die to various TR MAX weapons) it seems a lot weaker at AI than the dedicated AI weapons. So sure, buff the Vortex to match, or nerf the other two vs infantry - but it's not really a big balance problem IMO.