Inter-squad Coordinated Attacks

Manitou · 2011-01-24, 01:20 PM

One of the keys to any successful battle is the inter-squad dynamic that leads to interlocking fields of fire, concentrated fire, and other factors. I am hoping the developers are able to integrate factors like this into the game. Or, even crew-served weapons.

For example:

HMGs that require at least two troopers to operate
AAA batteries that also require multiple soldiers to make operational
Artillery (not like the original cave game arty) manned by two or more troopers

-- The HMGs might possibly have two or three pieces that can only be carried one piece per trooper and to combine them, these troops must get together and assemble it. Then two must operate it - gunner and ammo feeder.

-- Possibly have the AAA as a towed vehicle requiring a prime mover. It has to be a heavier vehicle to tow the AAA. Requires a gunner, ammo feeder and maybe an FO.

-- The artillery requires a prime mover as well, but also has to have a couple of troopers to set it up by anchoring the gun and operating it. This also could be enhanced by an FO who increases the accuracy of the gun by a laser device or something similar.

Possibly they could use some implants for increased effectiveness in any of these weapons.

These inter-squad duties would greatly enhance the cooperative efforts of squads and make them much more appealing for enhanced combat effectiveness of an outfit.

DviddLeff · 2011-01-24, 05:43 PM

To be honest I'm not sure; the multiple man weapons need to be much more effective than the combined effect of the crew with separate smaller weapons. I am happy for them to have that power as they will be stationary and vulnerable to attack.

Manitou · 2011-01-24, 05:50 PM

Well, that is the challenge. HMGs were daunting, for example, but have their weaknesses, including flanking attacks, reload times, barrel changes, etc. If these factors are worked into the equations, it might be an interesting loadout. Also, remember, being supported by other troops, they could be quite effective.

2coolforu · 2011-01-24, 06:00 PM

It had been done, see Red Orchestra; Arma 2. However it's complex and requires a game based around realism, I'd love to see some towed field artillery/antitank guns. Or at the very least some SPG's/Tracked howitzers like the US Army's Paladin SPG.

DviddLeff · 2011-01-25, 12:56 PM

The One Man Field Turrets are pretty much the HMGs of the current game; they can be pretty effective at suppressing troops at least from my experience.

Furret · 2011-01-25, 05:19 PM

If they make the game realistic, then this could definitely work. I just don't know if they're willing to put that much effort into a game they've left in the dust before.

Firefly · 2011-01-25, 08:32 PM

You mean intra-squad? As in, within the squad? Or inter-squad as in, between two different squads?

I don't think it needs that stuff - the MCG was about as heavy-MG as it got. I think it's up to the squad to perform coordinated attacks. My outfit regularly made use of fire teams in full squads - odd numbers were Fire Team A, even numbers were Fire Team B. Fire Team A would fix a group of enemy in place, Fire Team B would perform what's called a flanking manoeuvre.

Manitou · 2011-01-25, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

You mean intra-squad? As in, within the squad? Or inter-squad as in, between two different squads?

I don't think it needs that stuff - the MCG was about as heavy-MG as it got. I think it's up to the squad to perform coordinated attacks. My outfit regularly made use of fire teams in full squads - odd numbers were Fire Team A, even numbers were Fire Team B. Fire Team A would fix a group of enemy in place, Fire Team B would perform what's called a flanking manoeuvre.

Either can work in this case.

Certainly the MCG is heavy, but I would like to see something along the lines of the MG42 teams of WWII. I understand my odd desire for crew served weapons in this type game, but I think it would be an interesting twist. The breaks (to prevent camping) would be reloading ammo and barrels.

As you probably know, Firefly, fire teams can be anchored with an HMG. Possibly they could limit the use of these heavier weapons to one per squad.

Bloodly · 2011-01-25, 09:30 PM

OP, a neat idea. I haven't read through the posts, but in cases where there might be a secondary function like an ammo-feeder or gun stabilizer, perhaps give that person a little mini-game or something in order for the ammo to be loaded optimally. Something along the lines of keeping a sporadically vibrating crosshair centered or something. Just my 2 cents.

Peacemaker · 2011-01-26, 05:07 AM

This wont work so well unless something is done for the guys doing stuff like feeding ammo and what not.

HMG: comes with a tripod and the gun its self. Two men carry it to a spot and set it up. One mans the gun, the other must return with more ammo. If that 2nd man isn't going to get more ammo, the gun quickly runs out. If the ammo runner is killed the gun quickly becomes useless. The runner can also act as a spotter / flank protection. Both men must be close to the gun to rotate it to a different direction (90 degree firing arc?) If the gunner overheats the barrel, he only has one spare. The ammo runner must bring extras IF the gun gets overheated. Cannot fire *up* as in its vertical aiming ability is only 30 or so degrees.

A hauler truck. One Driver, one passenger. No offensive weapons. Similar to ANT. Low armor. Must be vulnerable to Behind the line raids, air attacks. Cargo size fits enough ammo for someone to operate in a hot area for say 5-10 minutes. Needed to tow weapons.

Tripple AA:

Towed. 2 man crew. Must be deployed on a flat terrain. Gunner and ammo runner (driver)
Direct Kinetic weapon only. Theres enough guided weapons out there and flak too. Direct hits to aircraft cause good to decent damage but it should not be invulnerable to air attacks, a 2 man air cav team should beable to best a two man AA team if they play well.

Artillary: Towed. 2 man team required to fire and keep ammo going, 3 man to deliver accuracy. Large firing arc. Shell should come in on a 40 - 50 degree angle. Large range. Shells easy to track back. 1st man is gunner. He aims the cannon (which turns very slow). Using a map he can self designate a target up to 2/3rd max range away. Very inaccurate in this mode. 2nd man drives the ammo / tow vehicle. He should beable to supply 3 guns. 3rd man is the Spotter. Can spot for up to 3 guns. Can designate a target within 400m of him self using a map. Spotter then must give adjusted information to the gunner (maybe click a up down left right button on the map to bring the fire closer to where he wants it) Enables artys to shoot full range. Must be close to the fight to deliver the targets and stay close.

If crew serviced weapons are put into the game they should be vulnerable as hell, BUT should be deadly and powerful. If they are not supplied with ammo they should quickly run out. This boosts behind the lines operations. Striking behind enemy lines to take out the arty base that is hampering an advance sounds like it might be fun. This would require defensive squads around these weapons and escorts for the ammo trucks.

Just kinda threw this together as I wrote it so it probably needs work, but the gist is, if you want CSWs you need to keep all of the crew doing something. No one is going to pay a monthly fee to hand the guy next to him bullets while he chews through infantry and you get to watch.

Traak · 2011-01-29, 11:44 PM

Dang, where have you all been? Back when epic battles happened at bases, not just cheaters with rotary OS cannons or whatever, we would have three engineers fixing one corner turret that was the center of "attention" for about ten to fifteen enemies all wondering why the thing didn't die.

Everything in the game is a crew-served weapon for the engineers among us. I don't just love, I ADORE gluing a tank, turret, deployable field turret, max, softie, cloaker, skyguard or ANYTHING ELSE that is man or manned while it is busy mowing the enemies. I love imagining the looks of consternation on the faces of the enemy as the object in question never seems to friggin' DIE!!!

Geez, crew-served weapons. Get real. In PS, everything can be crew-served. The way you serve is by having one, or better yet, a gang of engies fixing it as it fires. Do you know how deadly a DC max is with three engies, especially advengies behind it keeping it firing? No! Because you never put down the guns long enough to find out!

That is what I love about PS! Everything can be a team operation, from cloaking to wall gunning. The teamwork is what I play for. Most of the top-scoring fools would rather everyone died and they scored five kills than they were fixing the weapon, max, or whoever who was making kills and he scored 500!

I have personally lazed one person to 100,000 BEP with a flail. This was back when the game didn't suck brains out of cow-pie maggots, so people couldn't find me by having twelve accounts simultaneously on twelve computers of the three different empires, or just waving the magic wand of cheating. There was a time when being a cloaker ACTUALLY MADE YOU HARDER TO FIND, NOT EASIER!

If you aren't a self-centered jackass, you can actually find teamwork in every part of PS. This is why most people don't know it is available on the level that it is.

PS IS Teamwork. The uber-computer owners who are satisfied with making it remain an ADAD-fest don't care about teamwork, just killz. They can run off and play with themselves on UT.

For the non-idiots, PS has teamwork opportunities bursting at the seams.

Furret · 2011-01-30, 12:01 PM

He didn't say that was the only way to have teamwork in the game, he was just suggesting another way to get people to work together.

Operating something like artillery or HMGs would probably be a great addition to the game. Imagine you and your friend learn about PS:N and decide you want to play it. There's tons of ways the two of you can help out, grab a vanguard or liberator or something, or you can both zerg the enemy, there's a ton of possibilities. CSW would just be another way for small teams to do a lot of damage.

Bloodly · 2011-01-30, 12:28 PM

Engineers are fine in the game, but limiting teamwork in the game to standing behind a vanguard or something and repairing would be pretty lame. I understand an engineer repairing vehicles or infantry who have gotten behind cover, but I don't think the ultimate goal for an engineer should be to become a repair robot during actual combat. That just won't appeal to many people from the FPS side of things.

Bags · 2011-01-30, 01:09 PM

Not sure what this really adds to the game.

Traak · 2011-01-30, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Bloodly

I understand an engineer repairing vehicles or infantry who have gotten behind cover, but I don't think the ultimate goal for an engineer should be to become a repair robot during actual combat.

What I'm saying is that it isn't much different from being the ammo donkey for a CSW.

Now, on the other hand, if you had a forward artillery spotter who could actually input aiming coordinates for the artillery, so he could do something more efficacious and direct than lazing, that would be something.

The artillery in this game blows as it is. Very difficult to get a team together to do it. I don't see how having a CSW will work any better.

So you have two guys, one guy is gunning, other guy is doing what? putting in ammo magazines like in the quad-20mm German WWII Flakvierling? This is a huge step up from repairing an active weapon?

I'm not against the idea. I would like to know how it would be any more fun than what PS has now, I mean, seriously, how it would be, this is not a mean-spirited cynical jibe. Expand your thoughts, give us more to chew on.