Speed Increase Messes Up Hitbox?

Palerion · 2014-02-14, 01:55 PM

I know the whole infiltrator update thing is over and the light assault update for some reason is pushed back to June, behind the combat medic update, but I was surfing on the forums and someone raised a good point.

A common suggestion for light assault is a speed boost, dash ability, fast jetpacks, speed in general. And everyone always argues that it would mess up the hitbox, which is apparently the same reason icarus jets were removed. But why don't MAX dashes cause hitbox problems then?

I was just curious about this. After all I watched this video:

And at 2:35 you can see the devs originally had a complete, beautiful model of EXACTLY what LA players are talking about. Apparently this was in the game during alpha stages, and I wonder why it has been completely ditched if it doesn't look that much faster than the MAX dash is. And it certainly doesn't have the duration, just the (limited) upward thrust.

I think most Light Assaults would agree that this would be much better than dual weilding. And yes of course the obvious utilitys for teamplay and whatnot should be added, but the devs ought to just do this. Light Assault is the least fleshed out class in the game. Only argument going for it is "it haz jetpack". And a lot of people try to act like that's some omnipotent ability that overshadows the ability to turn invisible or become a freaking tank with a shield, but in its current state it is directionless, and most playstyles are simply resourceful, such as C4 bombing (costly in terms of resources) and shotgun rushing (actually really inaccurate whilst actually using the jetpack, I believe after a recent update?). So, yeah. This type of jetpack would help flesh out the class a lot. After all if you're losing your normal jetpack for this what's the harm? More gear, both combat and team-oriented, would help flesh out the class a lot (example: making flash nades not useless).

The infiltrator update came with all these new cloaks and stuff. This seems easy to implement. MAXes don't cause trouble with their speed. Why not implement it? Sometimes I really wish there could be more player interaction with the devs, because it seems like their direction for this class is kind of unknown at this point (especially with their suggesting of dual weilding -.-), and their reason for removing this jetpack and taking away everything that resembles speed from the Light Assault is unknown.

Zadexin · 2014-02-14, 02:32 PM

I don't know about the speed stuff but one thing I did notice about the video; this game used to be freakin gorgeous! Everything in that video looked better than it does now. The game today looks a lot more cartoony and unrealistic than it did at launch. I'm sure that has to do with "Make game faster". But I for one miss the particle physx, advanced lighting effects and high res graphics.

Sorry to hijack your post. Just so i'm not a total tool, I agree with you 100%. They need to stop taking away choices in the name of 'balance'. Instead, they need to give us more options and not OP every new item they put on the market. (looking at you crossbow death ray gun!)

Snoopy · 2014-02-14, 04:52 PM

I agree. I want icarus jets back! None of this duel wielding crap. LA has all the potential in the world to be a good class again, but it needs the icarus jets and other well thought out additions. But essentially, we need the option to be able to fly much quicker (albeit for a very brief period).

If you can kill an enemy jumping between jump pads etc, you could kill a LA using icarus jets. They certainly aren't going to be able to shoot you mid-air any way, so I really don't see the problem.

camycamera · 2014-02-14, 06:20 PM

i am fairly certain they have already stated they were going to put the icuras jump jets in the LA update.

Azzzz · 2014-02-14, 06:28 PM

OK seriously..what was that game in that trailer?

It was not planetside 2. That looked too damn good to be PS2.

Did you see the rocket pod explosions? My goodness that was nice.

He was right on one thing, everything you do see is subject to change :P

Palerion · 2014-02-14, 06:56 PM

The jets in the video aren't Icarus Jets are they? I'm hoping they give us whatever the ones in the video are. That's the kind of gameplay I always hoped I'd be able to pursue as a light assault, leaping over the heads of my adversaries. Doesn't seem OP either as a one-time-burst, recharge; gives a slight advantage, but all the enemy has to do is turn around.

Where did they confirm the Icarus Jets anyway? Like, do you have a link?

And yeah, the video's gameplay does look oddly a lot better than the game does currently.

Snoopy · 2014-02-14, 07:04 PM

That might've been the alpha version of the icarus jets? In beta though, I'm pretty sure they had less thrust than those in the (alpha) video, though significantly more than what we currently have. Either way, it would make for interesting gameplay if they ever decided to re-implement those from the video. Flanking could be fun again.

Video of the icarus jets for comparison

Palerion · 2014-02-14, 07:54 PM

Yeah, I feel like Icarus could be re-added, just maybe a bit less convenient to skyrocket out of any firefight with. And those jets from the video should be added too. They both seem to serve some pretty cool purposes.

Another important topic is the fact that this revamp is scheduled for June. Freaking June. And the combat medic gets April I believe? Not cool. LA should be next on the list, it needs the most help, and it should probably be really soon. Combat medics have no problem healing and reviving with their little guns, throwing out heal/revive grenades, using AOE heal, and wielding ARs. They have a solid role and solid equipment; LA does NOT have a solid role, and the equipment? Normal jumpjets are basic, but really support one playstyle (perching on stuff). Drifters suck. That's about it.

That LA revamp update needs to shoot up in their priorities.

EDIT: And I've thought about that jetpack in the video some more and it would actually help the LA with their role of "disruption" even more. All that spawn camping and such, and gridlocks that occur; get an LA taking one speedy shot across the enemy line with that jetpack. He's less likely to die flying over there and would cause a massive distraction and uproar behind enemy lines, allowing for the rest of the forces to push. Combine that with a flash grenade. Even better.

ZeroDefex · 2014-02-17, 01:25 PM

I have to say that I've been playing the Titanfall beta. They did light assault right!

Mastachief · 2014-02-18, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by ZeroDefex

I have to say that I've been playing the Titanfall beta. They did light assault right!

Bots?

If they dropped the jets and went with the titanfall movement that would be great but the game wouldn't handle it, too many players too much network demand for that type of stuff.

Dragonskin · 2014-02-18, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by ZeroDefex

I have to say that I've been playing the Titanfall beta. They did light assault right!

I would hope so since that is all you can do besides be in a mech.

As for the OP, yea I think any increase in speed will change hit detection. It's similar to how players abuse ADADing. By the time you see where they are and fire they are no longer there so they avoid a lot of the damage.

huller · 2014-02-19, 07:01 AM

Dem alpha facilities

Gatekeeper · 2014-02-19, 09:31 AM

Honestly I'm not sure it really matters whether a sudden speed-boost would mess up hit-boxes or not. If the game can't handle that, then just explicitly make temporary invulnerability a part of the boost ability (surround the LA with a glowing shield effect, or somesuch).

So long as the range, activation delay, cooldown, etc. on the boost ability are designed to balance out the invulnerability while the power is active, it'll work out fine.

War Barney · 2014-02-19, 11:52 AM

Well one problem with huge speed boosts like that is the ever constant delay due to lag, its only small BUT with an ability like that it would give you a huge advantage. This lag is the reason why sometimes you people turn a corner and seem to shoot you the second they turn it, its cos they actually turned it BEFORE you saw them come around it due to the delay, its also why you see people shooting aiming nowhere near you but you get hit, because on their screen they are shooting you.

So while this would be cool it would be the must have tool as it would give whoever used it a huge advantage as the enemy. This video explains it a bit better

AThreatToYou · 2014-02-20, 10:17 AM

that alpha gameplay looked much smoother than the stuff we have now. gun looked heavy, looked like it took a PS1-level of bullets to kills someone, and so on...

and from my experience playing the initial release version, yeah, this game used to look better. for awhile it was starting to look even better but then it went downhill, cause all that beauty just could not be handled..

--

As for the issue at hand, let me say that sudden movements cause issues with hitbox lag. It's part of why ADAD strafing is powerful.

Do you know how lag compensation works? I'm not trying to insult you, it is just that I am not sure how to explain it. My theory is, like with the MAX dash, if you instantly accelerate an object to a higher speed there will be a distance directly proportional to the viewing player's ping where the objects hitbox will appear to "teleport". After that moment, lag comp takes effect and nothing unusual happens.

The distance the object "teleports" is directly proportional to the viewing player's latency/ping because this represents the time that the object was moving at the accelerated speed and the other client didn't know about it, because the information hadn't got to them yet due to the latency.

For my example, I'll use a server-based object.

Object A, say an AI LA uses this proposed "Dash" maneuver. It will accelerate him from stand-still (0m/s) to an extremely fast speed for a short period (20m/s for 1 second). The acceleration is instantaneous (infinity m/s²).
Literally though, the action moves the LA only 20 meters, over 1 second.

Viewing player you watches the AI do this with a latency of 100ms. This represents information from the server to you taking 100ms. Now, when the AI LA does this action on the server, there is a 100ms time frame where the LA is committing the action but you do not see it happening. In that time frame, the AI LA moving at 20m\s would have moved 2 meters before your client picked up on anything (20m/s*100ms). Likewise, on your screen, the LA teleports 2 meters forward then continues the action normally.

Infer what that means for yourself. The teleported distance gets bigger when the dashing object is a player.

(note you can solve this, and the devs probably do with something called lag compensation: when the "LA Dash" action is cued, it will delay the action and use that time to send a cue to every player in the area which will all play the "LA Dash" action for the object at the same time using the information based off of their average ping, the time delay of the "LA Dash" action, and possibly the dashing player's average ping. They pretty much already do that with the MAX Dash)