As a Mag I will die to a Vanguard 4 out of 5 times in a 1v1...

Vernei · 2013-07-11, 05:51 AM

...to an experienced and highly certed Vanguard driver.

I am an experienced and highly certed Magrider pilot. I have experienced gunners. I have the most tricked-out Magrider possible. It doesn't matter. If I am in a true one on one combat scenario with a Vanguard, at least four out of five times the engagement will end with my tank blowing up. That doesn't include "losses" in which I lost the engagement but managed to escape without my tank being destroyed - in which case the odds are even more pathetic.

Why is this? It is because the Vanguard's Shield provides a full eight seconds of near invulnerability - with absolutely zero downside. While this shield is active, the Vanguard can continue to drive at full speed, turn at full speed, and engage with both primary and secondary weapons at full DPS.

Yes, it is possible to break the shield, as it absorbs a flat amount of damage, however, the amount of DPS a single Magrider puts out isn't enough to break the shield quickly - even if all the shots land, the Vanguard still received basically four seconds of invulnerability, all the while, it continues to pound away on you at full DPS.

It is also quite difficult to maneuver away from a Vanguard while the shield is active, as the Vanguard still has full mobility and can easily chase a fleeing Magrider behind any cover that it has attempted to utilize. Also, if the nose of the Magrider is pointed toward the nearest rock in a futile attempt to flee, the primary gun is not putting DPS on the target - making it even less likely for the shield to be broken before the full eight seconds. All the while, the Vanguard is firing away at you at full DPS.

It is precisely this scenario why Magriders are simply no match for Vanguards. At greater distances, Magrider survivability increases, but only because the Magrider is more likely to be able to take cover behind a rock and repair for a few seconds while the Vanguard closes the distance. Regardless, once that Vanguard is within 100m, the Magrider is toast the vast majority of the time in a one on one.

Here are a few solutions that I believe will bring Vanguards back into balance and at least give Magriders a fighting chance to survive in combat with them.

1) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard keeps full mobility and speed, but is unable to fire any of its weapons while the shield is active. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 seconds to 25 seconds.

2) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard loses 25% speed, and is able to fire its secondary weapon, but unable to fire the main gun while the shield is active. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 to 35 seconds.

3) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard loses 75% speed, but is able to fire both primary and secondary weapons, thus sacrificing mobility for DPS. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 to 35 seconds.

I believe any one of these solutions would go a long way to bringing balance back into MBT combat in Planetside2 . I welcome any constructive comments or suggestions.

Tank you for your time,
Vernei
Ghosts of the Revolution Phantom Guard Executive Officer - Mattherson

blashyrk · 2013-07-11, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by Vernei

...to an experienced and highly certed Vanguard driver.

I am an experienced and highly certed Magrider pilot. I have experienced gunners. I have the most tricked-out Magrider possible. It doesn't matter. If I am in a true one on one combat scenario with a Vanguard, at least four out of five times the engagement will end with my tank blowing up. That doesn't include "losses" in which I lost the engagement but managed to escape without my tank being destroyed - in which case the odds are even more pathetic.

Why is this? It is because the Vanguard's Shield provides a full eight seconds of near invulnerability - with absolutely zero downside. While this shield is active, the Vanguard can continue to drive at full speed, turn at full speed, and engage with both primary and secondary weapons at full DPS.

Yes, it is possible to break the shield, as it absorbs a flat amount of damage, however, the amount of DPS a single Magrider puts out isn't enough to break the shield quickly - even if all the shots land, the Vanguard still received basically four seconds of invulnerability, all the while, it continues to pound away on you at full DPS.

It is also quite difficult to maneuver away from a Vanguard while the shield is active, as the Vanguard still has full mobility and can easily chase a fleeing Magrider behind any cover that it has attempted to utilize. Also, if the nose of the Magrider is pointed toward the nearest rock in a futile attempt to flee, the primary gun is not putting DPS on the target - making it even less likely for the shield to be broken before the full eight seconds. All the while, the Vanguard is firing away at you at full DPS.

It is precisely this scenario why Magriders are simply no match for Vanguards. At greater distances, Magrider survivability increases, but only because the Magrider is more likely to be able to take cover behind a rock and repair for a few seconds while the Vanguard closes the distance. Regardless, once that Vanguard is within 100m, the Magrider is toast the vast majority of the time in a one on one.

Here are a few solutions that I believe will bring Vanguards back into balance and at least give Magriders a fighting chance to survive in combat with them.

1) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard keeps full mobility and speed, but is unable to fire any of its weapons while the shield is active. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 seconds to 25 seconds.

2) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard loses 25% speed, and is able to fire its secondary weapon, but unable to fire the main gun while the shield is active. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 to 35 seconds.

3) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard loses 75% speed, but is able to fire both primary and secondary weapons, thus sacrificing mobility for DPS. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 to 35 seconds.

I believe any one of these solutions would go a long way to bringing balance back into MBT combat in Planetside2 . I welcome any constructive comments or suggestions.

Tank you for your time,
Vernei
Ghosts of the Revolution Phantom Guard Executive Officer - Mattherson

My brother and I drive a Magrider with Saron (both barely certed) he's usually the driver and I'm the gunner. We go on insane killstreaks (it's usually about 10 tanks, same number of sunderers, countless infantry and even a couple of ESFs) during a lifetime of a single Magrider.

I don't mean to brag, I just want to express that Magrider is highly capable (although definitely a bit hindered compared to other MBTs), but only if you
use it properly and ONLY if you have a gunner on a decent secondary cannon.

Magrider being weak as it is, you really need to pick fights only at a higher distance, where you can slowly but steadily pick at enemy armor from a distance while the driver strafes and evades enemy shells (evasion is impossible at short/medium distances even with strafe ability because the other MBTs' tank shells have extremely high velocity) and Saron is perfect for this, because it has no projectile drop.

Currently the only bright spots of the Magrider are the Saron secondary and the ability to use terrain to your advantage better than with other MBTs. That being said, its main gun is absolutely terrible.

Baneblade · 2013-07-11, 06:31 AM

Funny, because the Magrider is the exact thing I don't want to see on the battlefield. I'd rather charge a line of lockdown Prowlers.

MrMak · 2013-07-11, 06:37 AM

I like how you make 0 mention of the fact that a Magrider can use the magburer to easily get away or s\circle around to the vuneralbe side of any tank.

The Vanguard is slow and has poor accleration which also hinders it's hill climbing capabilatios. Im pretty sure you CAN get away or dodge.

You want the vanguard shield to have a downside? fine. Come up with one for the Magburner aswell.

Ruffdog · 2013-07-11, 06:46 AM

Thing is when it's 2 vehicles v 2 vehicles I bet the Maggie wins 5/5

blashyrk · 2013-07-11, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by MrMak

I like how you make 0 mention of the fact that a Magrider can use the magburer to easily get away or s\circle around to the vuneralbe side of any tank.

The Vanguard is slow and has poor accleration which also hinders it's hill climbing capabilatios. Im pretty sure you CAN get away or dodge.

You want the vanguard shield to have a downside? fine. Come up with one for the Magburner aswell.

Perhaps so, but Prowlers and Vanguards have omnidirectional turrets which turn a lot faster than you can circle the enemy MBT with the Magburner, thus the advantage is basically nullified.

MrMak · 2013-07-11, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by blashyrk

Perhaps so, but Prowlers and Vanguards have omnidirectional turrets which turn a lot faster than you can circle the enemy MBT with the Magburner, thus the advantage is basically nullified.

It would be if the armor was the same all around.

PredatorFour · 2013-07-11, 07:07 AM

Then make a dedicated av tank to take them on, av for both guns. I got an av loadout and its more of an equaliser against vannies.

Qwan · 2013-07-11, 07:25 AM

I rarely to never pull mags, so I really have no comment about the vehicle and its abilitys. But i will say this fixed gun in the front of the mag is its downfall, its a horrible attempt at making the vechicle all alien, and personnally I find it to be a joke. When I am forced to pull a mag, combat is horrible, I usually kill more friendly softies standing around, and bump into everything. I think the MBT on all factions are horribly designed, the gunner as the driver was just not the smartest way to go.

ringring · 2013-07-11, 08:12 AM

The Magrider is death on wheels.

without the wheels.

Dougnifico · 2013-07-11, 08:24 AM

Interesting. As a TR tanker I can say we get killed 2 out of 3 times against either... until we anchor. If I start the engagement and my anchor is down, goodbye vanguard, shields or not.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-07-11, 08:27 AM

The magrider like the NC max is probably best when it chooses the terrain that it wants to fight on. If an nc max is caught outside in the open it is not a potent foe. If the magrider decides to fight on hilly terrain against a vanguard it gains a tremendous mobility advantage. Use the terrain to your advantage and win. Fight a vanguard in the open and you will lose more often than not.

blashyrk · 2013-07-11, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by ringring

The Magrider is death on wheels.

without the wheels.

This is kinda equivocal... Death for the Mag pilot/gunner or their opponents

?

Jonny · 2013-07-11, 10:29 AM

My advice: Don't fight a vanguard head on, they can shield and block your damage. Get magburner fully certed and get round to shoot their ass. Best way! If it fails you can still jet away and hide

Rbstr · 2013-07-11, 10:39 AM

You can't fight a vanguard in a slug-fest if they have AP. The shield makes it impossible to win.

You have to cause him to miss or be unable to hit you somehow. So long ranges and cover. Or pray they're crap and try to burn behind them (because, yeah the turret can quite easily keep up)? Otherwise just say "nope".
If they aren't running AP, it's quite a lot more doable.
But why wouldn't they use AP? It's so hilariously good.