Game Feedback: Its Boring. :/

basti · 2013-01-11, 12:25 PM

I also put up a video that contains the stuff in this post and more. Vid is 30 min long, post is much shorter and misses some stuff because im in a Hurry.

Smaller outfits:

Issue is simple: we have nothing to do. In Planetside 1, we could hold Generators down to deny the enemy any number of benefits thanks to the lattice system, or do re secures. In planetside 2, nothing of that is possible.

What outfits that aren’t Azure Twilight, Ghosts of the Revolution or the Enclave, basically outfits that hold much more than a single platoon, need is side objectives that are important and happen away from the zerg. Generators that actually power those benefits bases give would help a ton, just make sure you place them inside defend-able buildings that wont just get shelled from the outside.

Key issue really is that right now, smaller outfits can just join the zerg. If we try anything else, we get steamrolled, or face no resistance. Because why defend that small outpost over there for the off chance of someone coming? To fix that, we need longer hack timers, MUCH longer, like twice or three times as long.

This means you can mount defences, as you know where the enemy is and where they have to go next.

Longer hack timers would also likely fix the whole “attack attack never defend” issue we have. Right now its impossible to mount a proper defence. If you see the enemy zerg attacking some place, you try to set up a defence line somewhere, and yell for help via /orders. But till people are actually there and got ready to stop the enemy, the enemy is already there. To fix this, I tired to mount defence lines further away, but that turned out to be not working, as a chunk of folks went right into the enemy. Turns out our defence line was not strong enough because of that, and we get steamrolled. People stopped trying to defend quickly because of that.

Longer hack timers would mean the enemy would stay at a base much longer, means defenders have more time to form up, and also re secures can actually be done, as opposed to the current “this is getting hacked, we need to re secure it asap OH ITS ALREADY GONE”

So, in short: 2-3 times longer hack timers, and side objectives like Generators that power the benefits of bases.

Spotting:

Its dull, completely, and broken to the bone. There is no reason to not spam Q all the time.

Putting some kind of downside on Q wont work and only make people mad. Instead, change spotting completely. Remove Q, let spotting be done by vehicle radar and Infiltrators.

Give Galaxys a sidegrade for an avacs like radar dish, maybe make it somewhat more complicated like the higher the galaxy is flying, the less it spots (low flying it spots everything, med flying only vehicles and some infantry, High flying only some vehicles).

Also, enhance the infiltrators tool, and also give him another tool option. Binoculars that spot whenever the infil “fires” with them at enemy’s. Spot stays active as long as the infil keeps his eyes on the target. Something like that.

Metagame:

I cant possible stress enough how quick we need those 3 other continents and the continent metagame with them. Video goes into more detail here, just need to say it again: HURRY CLEGG! <3

Quick and dirty, done. Please tell me what you folks think.

Greets

Basti

Binkley · 2013-01-11, 12:37 PM

I'm all for side objectives, generators or whatever, that can be defended by a squad. However, longer hack times will make the game less boring? Come again? The boring part of the game is standing around waiting for the base to cap after the resistance is gone (if there ever was any). I sure don't want to make that any worse.

ringring · 2013-01-11, 12:49 PM

Video isn't available as yet but I completely agree with the text.

I think in general the design looked at PS1 tried to keep in stuff people said was fun and took out stuff people say wasn't.

However, the staff they took turned out to be very important, e.g. longer hack timers, and without those it makes defence pointless, resecures as of old impossible and it even makes captures less meaningful, we lose all ways round.

Zakuak · 2013-01-11, 12:53 PM

I like all of this.

I'm pretty new around here but stop by to read around and get away from the "Nerf everything" talk on the PS2 forums.

Your ideas seem like they would add some ...what's the word I'm looking for...purpose to certain aspects of the game. Or at least allow time for the factions to respond to each others actions, as it stands now it's just a big blob that rolls in and no real amount of strat or tactical decision making is required, you grab a weapon and cross your fingers lol. Obviously I am have over simplified it but...

It's very fast paced which on some levels is great...I'm not looking for some turn based combat or anything, but on other levels (metagame and so forth) it is too fast or more so non-existent.

Seems they could add some elements to the game that would maintain the frantic up paced in your face combat but allow for some crafty strategy and clandestine type stuff.

As for the "Q" button...I think anyone should be able to spot but yeah Infil with Binocs would be cool, maybe keep that spotted enemy on mini map longer.

bpostal · 2013-01-11, 01:32 PM

Rapid response is something my outfit has been discussing and I agree that as it currently stands it's simply not viable in most situations, to the detriment of the game.
However, simply extending the length of the hack timers (for lack of a better term) would just mean more time spawn camping for the assaulting forces at towers and outposts. For larger facilities it would mean securing a hard spawn point and trying to assault through to bring the SCU back up, still not very 'defensive' and more of a smallish-sized counter assault. Could be fun but it wouldn't be like what was possible in Planetside, dropping a gal at the BD and assaulting through to the tubes (or CC) to bring them back up since due to the current layout it would be more akin to taking a tower and pushing from the tower to the base you're trying to defend back in Planetside.
I would see that being more viable for the current tech plant as the SCU is in it's own separate building, which one could gain control of, while bringing the SCU back online. In a biolab or amp station you would have to gain control of the main superstructure before work could begin on bring the spawns back up (or they'll just go right back down moments after you bring them online.)

We'll have to see what Clegg has planned for these redesigned bases. My hopes are less areas that can be shelled by outside armor/air and passageways from the spawns to outlying areas, to allow for the types of holds that used to be the bread and butter of smaller, more tightly knit outfits.
Hopefully the video will go online in a few minutes and we can all take a look.

EDIT: More info on the map is what would really help. Status of hard spawns, status of gens, cap points, etc...
EDIT EDIT: Youtube says the video has been removed for being too long? wth?

Ruffdog · 2013-01-11, 03:51 PM

We need home continents like Planetside 1. We need to immerse the new folk into the Auraxis universe. When a purple or blue flag showed up on Ceryshen or Forseral (later Hossin and Solar - crazy universe shift) it was a direct challenge that had to be answered.
PS2 bases at the moment? We really don't give a fuck.
Yes I think longer hack times and ergo longer ownership times will be a good start

Also another thing ps1 did well was spheres of influence. Defenders had a bonus from the get go: the broadcast channel, radar at interlinks, drop pod denial etc. Attackers have it far too easy at the moment, hence the fast handovers.

I really look forward to Cleggs Interlinks

Beerbeer · 2013-01-11, 03:59 PM

Aww, no one wants to get spawn camped by vehicles anymore and by inference, no one wants to defend?

Solution:

1. Nerf vehicles
2. Change bases
3. Allow defenders to spawn tanks everywhere and from the spawn room (lol).

Tatwi · 2013-01-11, 04:04 PM

Now I don't feel so bad for feeling the same way. Here's hoping they change it to be a fun game.

basti · 2013-01-11, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ruffdog

We need home continents like Planetside 1. We need to immerse the new folk into the Auraxis universe. When a purple or blue flag showed up on Ceryshen or Forseral (later Hossin and Solar - crazy universe shift) it was a direct challenge that had to be answered.
PS2 bases at the moment? We really don't give a fuck.
Yes I think longer hack times and ergo longer ownership times will be a good start

Also another thing ps1 did well was spheres of influence. Defenders had a bonus from the get go: the broadcast channel, radar at interlinks, drop pod denial etc. Attackers have it far too easy at the moment, hence the fast handovers.

I really look forward to Cleggs Interlinks

This is something that i plan to give feedback on later, propably in a few days. I just didnt want the post/the video to explode any more.

I fully agree tho. We need home continents, and with them also sanctuarys. No way around it, but more to that in a few days.

edit: youtube decided to kill my vid because of its 30 minutes. Gosh, forgot about that completly. :/

Beerbeer · 2013-01-11, 04:09 PM

Longer hack times won't make a difference. In fact it will make things worse under the current circumstances. No one will try to come back to retake under that vehicle cluster ****. Do they now?

basti · 2013-01-11, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Beerbeer

Longer hack times won't make a difference. In fact it will make things worse under the current circumstances. No one will try to come back to retake under that vehicle cluster ****. Do they now?

Err, no, completly wrong.

Vehicles are no problem. They are easy to take out, especially when everyone is already inside trying to hack the base. Even if not, they can be taken out quite easily, as they are sitting ducks trying to defend the hack.
But for that you need time, time you dont have right now.

Emperor Newt · 2013-01-11, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Binkley

I'm all for side objectives, generators or whatever, that can be defended by a squad. However, longer hack times will make the game less boring? Come again? The boring part of the game is standing around waiting for the base to cap after the resistance is gone (if there ever was any). I sure don't want to make that any worse.

I would disagree. It's boring because there is nothing to do except jumping to the music someone is broadcasting via proximity voicechat.
If there would actually be some fighting (defense) taking place the hacking would partially happen during that time and people would feel less bored, even if it took longer, because they would have stuff to shoot at.

Regarding the op I agree. Especially with smaller outfits. My outfit can bring about two squads ever night and a little more then a platoon on "organized" nights. Currently due to the drop of players we are even below one full platoon in strength. It's hard to impossible to find good fights anymore. Defense is pointless (as stated a millions times) as defenders often need to outnumber attackers (who came up with that crazy idea?) and attacking outside of the zerg means capping empty bases. And that's just boring.
To help ourselves we started doing stupid stuff like fighting the enemy tank zerg with Flashs or Galaxy ramming the enemy air zerg. It's fun for a few times but we are really running out of options. There is just nothing for us to do because in Planetside 2 bigger is always better. Which means being small is pointless.

basti · 2013-01-11, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Emperor Newt

I would disagree. It's boring because there is nothing to do except jumping to the music someone is broadcasting via proximity voicechat.
If there would actually be some fighting (defense) taking place the hacking would partially happen during that time and people would feel less bored, even if it took longer, because they would have stuff to shoot at.

Pretty much, yes.

Lets take planetside 1. There, we had 15 minutes hack timer. FIFTEEN MINUTES! Thats 1/4 of an hour.
Hacking was somewhat different tho. Instead of standing around the point, someone with a hack tool (a REK) moved to the hack terminal and pretty much shot at it with said tool. after a few seconds (depending on his hacking certification), the hack activated, and the 15 minutes counted down.
Then, you could go wherever you want. Mostly tho, it was defending the base to prevent the enemy to breach in, get to the hack terminal, and remove the hack (same way as hacking it in the first place, with the REK tool)

What usually happend in those 15 minutes.
Often, nothing. But it gave you time do do other stuff, like talk with your mates, plan the next attack, stuff like that.
But plenty of times, the enemy tried to resecure. That means you had a heavy fight for that base.
But what ALWAYS happend during those 15 minutes: The enemy spawned at the next base, and got ready for you. They mounted a grand defence, or decided to push against you with everything they got. That caused a lot of great battles, and steamrolling rarley happend.

RobUK · 2013-01-11, 05:16 PM

There was a post on the official forums about the endless vehicle spam. It's something that I also feel strongly about and I dearly wish some kind of resource was consumed each time a base constructed a vehicle for somebody. Adding the need to replensih that resource would add some much needed logistics to the game. Being able to deny the enemy the chance to replenish bases would be a whole new and badly needed layer of gameplay.

The replenishment vehicle doesn't have to be called an Ant and the resource doesn't have to be Nanites, so the dev's wouldn't have to feel that they're bowing down to the imaginary "we want Planetside 1.5" movement.

I really wish this group of developers would be bold enough to try out some of the original PS1 mechanics in PS2. Planetside 1 seems to be such a taboo thing with those guys for some reason.

This game needs to be more FUN. At the moment it's just about the frags and that gets boring so desperately quickly. We really need some depth to the game.

basti · 2013-01-11, 05:29 PM

Rob, the vehicle spam comes from the class and cert system, and there is little they can do to stop the basic cause without breaking the game completly.

Vehicles can be taken out, easily, by an opposing zerg as strong in numbers as the attacking vehicle zerg, regardless if they are infantary or in vehicles themself.

But that just doesnt happen as often as it should be. By the time you identified that enemy vehicle zerg and yelled for help, they are already steamrolling everything, and every attempt to stop them ends up with your forces being to few to actually do enough damage.

Thats why we need longer hack timers. We simply need more time to mount a defence. I know for some folks this sound crazy, but ive giving this a lot of thinking, and talked with a bunch of guys. It really is a simple time question.

Especially if you look at Buzzcut and the enclave. They can deal with vehicle spam, because they do have the numbers wherever they want. The zerg doesnt have the benefit of one big TS3 and a guy shouting at them what to do and people actually doing what gets said asap. With more time, this would be fixed.