New Tank Concepts

HiroshiChugi · 2013-05-06, 01:08 PM

So we don't have ES Light tanks, only a common pool one. We don't have a common pool MBT, only ES ones. So why not add ES LTs and a common pool MBT? I've found 2 concepts, one for each.

Here is the ES LT:

And the common pool MBT:

^This could also be similar to what the common pool heavy tank might look like maybe? Possibly?

Thoughts? Ideas? Oh, and both would have dedicated drivers. LT would have something similar to and just a little bit stronger than a M40 Fury, with maybe a 10 round clip.?

Landtank · 2013-05-06, 01:56 PM

I like the idea of Empire Specific Light Tanks. Could end up being a really cool addition. Make them have a driver, a gunner, and space for 4 allies in the back. I know the Deliverer, Thunderer, Aurora and Raider already existed in PS1, but I don't really like the look of those. Maybe keep the names though!

I don't think they should have any significant AA ability, let the Skyguard handle that.

For the TR, give it a vulcan like weapon or a 25mm chain gun/auto cannon (perhaps both, vulcan being AI and the chaingun being AV). Also allow the infantry inside to fire either their weapons or smaller MANA style turrets that don't really do much, but put a lot of bullets down range. Can't really think of an ES ability other than lockdown, but it should be something unique.

For the VS I figure it should float, because our friends in spandex love things that float. So, give it a Lancer (or Saron) type weapon (AV) and an AI Hailstorm turbo laser thing or whatever their AI tank secondary is. Should be quick, and lightly armored, and maybe able to boost away as an ES ability, but again I would want something more unique.

For the NC! The best faction! Perhaps they should have a railgun (AV) and a shotgun (AI), or an autocannon that fires slowly but really shreds infantry. Perhaps ~20rpm but 3 hit kill? Who knows. Can't think of any abilities other than some sort of shield, boo. The image you posted would be pretty sweet for the NC imo, just give it a big ass railgun instead

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moosepoop · 2013-05-06, 01:57 PM

empire specific solo tank

TR: prowler
NC: vanguard
vanu: magrider

HiroshiChugi · 2013-05-06, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by moosepoop

empire specific solo tank

TR: prowler
NC: vanguard
vanu: magrider

Well no sh*t Sherlock.

I mean ES LIGHT tanks. I asked for constructive criticism, not things that we already know...

moosepoop · 2013-05-06, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by HiroshiChugi

Well no sh*t Sherlock.

I mean ES LIGHT tanks. I asked for constructive criticism, not things that we already know...

no reason to have them if you can solo a mbt.

Landtank · 2013-05-06, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by moosepoop

no reason to have them if you can solo a mbt.

Really now. I don't know if you're aware, but this is a forum for discussion, not for just you typing your opinion and calling it fact.

moosepoop · 2013-05-06, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Landtank

Really now. I don't know if you're aware, but this is a forum for discussion, not for just you typing your opinion and calling it fact.

its logic. its an issue of power + cert gain + survivability.

players are barely using lightnings these days. if you introduce empire specific lightnings, no ones gonna use them either.

"neat idea" isnt a good reason to implement it.

wasdie · 2013-05-06, 02:31 PM

I would love to see ES and NS version of each vehicle class.

I feel that the NS should always be cheaper and more flexible but the ES version be more powerful in one faction specific way. This means the ES is more focused on a specific faction trait and it's usefulness is defined based upon that trait thus bringing in more asymmetrical balance which is good for this game.

An NS version of all vehicles means that there is at least some common ground. This common ground will allow the devs a bit more freedom in exploring the unique traits of each empire. They could get a bit crazier with the designs but because there is an NS variant to fall back on, no one empire will be at a major disadvantage in a certain way.

One thing that could be great is a boring NS MBT that is larger than the lightning that is set up just like the vanguard (single turret, secondary gunner position) and then turn all of the ES MBTs into more powerful 2-3 man crewed tanks that focus on the faction specific trait.

For example the Vanguard would have a single driver and single gunner. The main gun would be much more powerful than the current gun, but the loss of the secondary armament means the tank loses a higher rate of fire when going 2/2. This means the tank would have to be specialized for a role on loadout. These things would just be lumbering giants with a single focus but be extremely powerful at that. Very NC like.

The prowler could be a 3 man tank with 2 separate turrets with the #2 and #3 guys manning these turrets. This means a higher rate of fire and the ability to engage multiple targets at once. Very TR like.

The mag rider could stay pretty much how it is but get a side strafing and frontal armor boost. Make it more maneuverable and able to take more hits from the big vanguard turret and prowler turrets. Out of the 3 tanks right now the magrider is the one that suits the faction trait the best. I really don't see a reason to change it.

So then the NS tank would be pretty much a vanguard. Bigger and slower than the lighting, able to be driven and gunned by a single player and is cheaper than the ES variant, but really have no special traits and is pretty much inferior to the ES variant.

This is just to compliment that idea of an ES specific light tank that is basically a straight upgrade on the lightning in one faction specific way.

JesNC · 2013-05-06, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by moosepoop

its logic. its an issue of power + cert gain + survivability.

players are barely using lightnings these days. if you introduce empire specific lightnings, no ones gonna use them either.

"neat idea" isnt a good reason to implement it.

MBT =|= light tank. I see plenty of Lightnings around, and - at least for me - the Lightning is outperforming the solo MBT by far. But this isn't the "dedicated crews" debate.

ES light tanks would sure be fun. Don't know about a NS MBT though.

wasdie · 2013-05-06, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by JesNC

MBT =|= light tank. I see plenty of Lightnings around, and - at least for me - the Lightning is outperforming the solo MBT by far. But this isn't the "dedicated crews" debate.

ES light tanks would sure be fun. Don't know about a NS MBT though.

NS MBT would replace the role of the current MBTs and the current MBTs would have a certain trait exaggerated at the cost of more resources, a higher cooldown timer, and requirement of multiple players.

I think it's a good tradeoff. Giving an NS variant to a class of vehicles really allows the developer to exaggerate a certain trait that may make a tank more situational than it is now but we have weaker-all around tank as a fallback if your faction really struggles in a certain situation. Allows you to still fight.

Rasui · 2013-05-06, 03:12 PM

I would absolutely LOVE a ES light tank. Though I wonder, would that replace the ES buggies role too much despite them being multi-crew vs single crewed vehicles?

wasdie · 2013-05-06, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Rasui

I would absolutely LOVE a ES light tank. Though I wonder, would that replace the ES buggies role too much despite them being multi-crew vs single crewed vehicles?

The buggies are really in the class of their own. They aren't a very stable attacking platform and their speed really requires a dedicated gunner. I see them more as quick transport vehicles with more offensive capabilities in certain situations. They are certainly great for getting maxes to a fight really fast as well as just having fun.

I wouldn't really compare the buggy to a lightning. They fufill different rolls. So really an ES specific buggy lightning wouldn't upset the balance that much.

Carbon Copied · 2013-05-06, 05:25 PM

I like the idea of ES specific tanks however think it should go further than that before they start redefining / adding at the upper end of the scale; at the minute vehicles both ground and air are very generic you can't easily say "that's a VS/NC/TR sunderer" without spamming q to see if it is actually friend or opposition. Outlines, movement, sound tell you very little whats coming or what you will potentially have to deal with (doesn't apply so much to the air vehicles as there's so few utility on them that makes any difference outside of the individual piloting - however at a distance the point stands); but most importantly fails to tell who's bringing what to the fight..

Vehicle chassis are as it stands a jack of all trades you just cert/buy a different turret/top for a purpose; boring. Why can't the NS vehicles be your bare bones/cheap as chips disposable vehicles then faction equivalents are your specialty vehicles that allow "the bolt ons". Take the sunderer as a prime example: it does.. pretty much everything short of shoot nukes and battle tanks. To me the sunderer should be the vehicle that gets troops from A to B cheaply on resources and moderately hassle free with very few bells and whistles, common and fit for purpose: its the Renault Espace of PS2..

Having limited cert trees trees of (but including the chassis upgrades):

Blockade armor / Mine guard / Nanite auto repair / Fire suppression / smoke screen / proxy radar as well as common pool turrets able to be equipped for defense.

Now the ES "sunderer equivalent" costs more resources (ball park figure of 50% more), but allows the use of all the bells and whistles like modded chassis for AMS and all the swap out goodies, but this comes with the trade offs that you lose troop space as it heavily modifies the vehicle integrity - because introducing a new vehicle can't/shouldn't negate the old. So the "old" sunderer still has it's place as ground transport for troop movement and to travel in tandem with the "new".

So what would be the point?
Well for starters there's more variety on the battlefield: a war thats waged for several hundred years and all they have developed is 12 vehicles, 6 of which each faction's enemy uses..
Potentially quicker and easier target recognition - the q button is lazy implementation it really is.. I should be able to say "take down that AMS vehicle" and it's distinct enough to stand out from a group at distance without relying on a spot etc. leave that mechanic for platoon and squad leaders / IC's.

So TL: DR - yes I think there should be NS and faction tanks/vehicles however I feel they should concentrate splitting up and adding to the motor pool already there before adding yet more new ones that are in their own categories..

Dougnifico · 2013-05-06, 11:36 PM

Personally, I really hate common pool. I think they should make empire specific versions of everything. If they want to tack on an NS variant, cool with me. More content = $ for SOE = win for everyone.

AThreatToYou · 2013-05-07, 12:13 AM

Empire Specific light tanks sounds like a very cool idea.
In fact, i might prefer that idea over ES buggies, but we're gonna get ES buggies anyhoot.

ES Light Tanks would be multi-crew: driver+gunner. Ideally the gunner would control a forward-facing anti-infantry machine gun.

The gunner would control the turret, which could feature the following kinds of weapons:

TR - Bolter Cannon
Burstfire Rocketpods (CIRCUS)
(Skyguard)

VS - Arcing Plasma (with damage-over-time fire effect against infantry)
High velocity plasma cannon (with damage-over-time effect against vehicles and MAX)
(Skyguard)

NC - Napalm rocket launcher (with arc)
An actual hitscan laser-gun (effective against armor, heavy damage drop-off)
(Skyguard)

*I give NC the laser-gun because it sounds more "experimental" and "jury-rigged" than plasma. Typically, plasma weaponry is placed higher on the tech scale than lasers, and NC also use gauss right now.