Quick Knife - Is it really the best option?

[Zekeen]

For those of you who have seen the E3 demo, you have seen that currently there is a quick knife in the game, frequently ending up used instead of hacking. Now, most likely quick knifing isn't an insta kill, but a damaging attack. Never the less, is a quick knife a very good thing to have? The very nature of a quick-knife, is a feeling of a rushed game with overly unnatural character reaction. It seems like a teleporting knife with such a fast swing with a weapon that was not in the hand before. Really, what it looks like, is the weapon transforming into the knife and back. It feels unnatural.

As you can see, what I'm more concerned on, is not the quick-melee, but the quick-KNIFE.

Nitpicky? A bit, but I think my problems are a bit grounded. Quick-Knife is nothing but a terrible copy-cat of modern games. Come on devs, you don't have to be original, but don't do THIS! There should be a lot more out there that can make it fit in more.

The solution:

Rather than a quick knife, how about a rifle-bash? It works much more fluidly, the weapon doesn't leave the screen, you can get the attack in the same time frame, but it doesn't have to go as far, so it looks less rushed.

Not only does it take care of the quick-melee, but it allows the knife to be used in much more damaging and stealthy roles - equipped like a main weapon. Sure, it might be doing it like PS1, but it makes the knife a much hardier weapon, and then there's the case of the knife-alt fire, to increase damage.

Finally, if you devs want to see a knife in quick-melee, JUST USE A BAYONET! Effective, brutal, AND logical. Just make it a mod.

Well that's my two cents on this minor issue.

What do you guys think?

[Sabot]

I'm a firm believer that if you have to use a knife, you've done something very wrong to begin with... However, the optin of a melee attack must be there. So I'm going with equip a knife if that's what you want to use. And I'm not totally against an insta kill knife attack from behind or something like that... but only if you have to equip it before using it.... ook maybe not insta kill but a large amount of damge to you HP... i.e the knife ignore shields on infantry or if there's no shields, it can be explained by finding weak spots in the armor. But then only on infantry.. not on MAXes.

[Zekeen]

Originally Posted by Sabot

I'm a firm believer that if you have to use a knife, you've done something very wrong to begin with... However, the optin of a melee attack must be there. So I'm going with equip a knife if that's what you want to use. And I'm not totally against an insta kill knife attack from behind or something like that... but only if you have to equip it before using it.... ook maybe not insta kill but a large amount of damge to you HP... i.e the knife ignore shields on infantry or something like that.

Don't forget, in PS1, there was the alt fire of a knife that would shoot the damage up a lot, by turning on it's power supply to make a very loud racket, maybe add in some visual change too for PS2.

[Sabot]

Originally Posted by Zekeen

Don't forget, in PS1, there was the alt fire of a knife that would shoot the damage up a lot, by turning on it's power supply to make a very loud racket, maybe add in some visual change too for PS2.

Absolutely... that would be even better imo. Maybe we don't even need the alt fire option on it at all.. I mean, there was little to no point in trying to knife someone down without using the alt fire in PS1. Of course it's a nice option to have if you're a cloaker... meh, simply go PS1 style tbh. That would be the best imho.

[Zekeen]

I still say, if we DO take out quick-melee, let it be MODDED in. Having to attach a bayonet, you DESERVE to stab people! That would make it much more balanced.

But it also looks so retarded right now, people just start swinging, trying to hit the right key to hack or use a terminal.... just terrible.

[Death2All]

Why are people so adamant on incorporating melee into shooter games? Sometimes I feel alone with my hatred for melee.

[Bags]

I;'ve gotten more kills on people trying to melee in BF3 than I've died to it, so let the idiots have their quick knife.

[Zekeen]

Originally Posted by Bags

I;'ve gotten more kills on people trying to melee in BF3 than I've died to it, so let the idiots have their quick knife.

Yeah.. but quick-knife LOOKS TERRIBLE. It's an awful mechanic for a game as detailed and beautiful as PS2. It feels VERY out of place. Anything would be better.

[WNxThentar]

Originally Posted by elfailo

Anyone who supports quick knives needs to be deported to Australia.

How is that bad? I'm an American with dual citizenship living in Australia. The economy over here is good. The women are gorgeous. Sure we pay more for some computer games but I can live with that given the rest of the life style

[SztEltviz]

Originally Posted by elfailo

Anyone who supports quick knives needs to be deported to Australia.

Douglas Adams: Salmon of Doubt

The journey took about an hour, streaking effortlessly over the dark
and gleaming sea under a brilliant sun. Smaller lush green islands slid past us
in the distance. I watched the long wake of water folding back into the sea
behind us, sipped at my champagne, and thought of an old bridge that I know
in Sturminster Newton in Dorset. It still has a cast-iron notice bolted to it hat
warns anybody thinking of damaging or defacing the bridge in any way that
the penalty is transportation. To Australia. Now, Sturminster Newton is a
lovely town, but it astonishes me that the bridge is still standing.

Jane, who is much better at reading guide books than I am (I always read
them on the way back to see what I missed, it’s often quite a shock),
discovered something wonderful in the book she was reading. Did I know,
she asked, that Brisbane was originally founded as a penal colony for
convicts who committed new offences after they had arrived in Australia?

I spent a good half hour enjoying this single piece of information. It was
wonderful. There we British sat, poor grey sodden creatures, huddling under
our grey northern sky that seeped like a rancid dish cloth, busy sending
those we wished to punish most severely to sit in bright sunlight on the
coast of the Tasman Sea at the southern tip of the Great Barrier Reef and
maybe do some surfing too. No wonder the Australians have a particular kind
of smile that they reserve exclusively for use on the British.

[therandomone]

Personally, I'm against the rifle bash because I love the feeling of successfully bringing a knife to a gun fight. Sure it is slightly animalistic, but I feel like a goddamn champ when I can pull it off. Also, I think it'd be incredibly stupid to have it not 1-hit kill your opponent because why the hell would you use a knife to begin with then? I seem to be one against the world with having it be a 1-hit kill but again logistically it is easily feasible to kill someone with one hit from a knife and anyone who says otherwise clearly has little to no experience with knives (except for maybe cutting their food). I'll give three simple scenarios to explain why:

Scenario 1: If I'm behind you with a knife.
In this scenario I would knife upwards around the neck towards the skull, in doing so I sever the brain stem. By severing the brain stem you cut off motor function and basic functions like breathing. Outcome: You die.

Scenario 2: If I'm in front of you with a knife.
In this scenario I would thrust my knife through the spaces in your rib cage stabbing the heart (for added fun I give it a little twist and turn). Statistics say IF you receive immediate care (say, from a hospital) you have about a 33% chance of survival,we're on a battlefield and something tells me there are no hospital facilities on Auraxis that you can be carted of to. Outcome: You die.

Universal scenario: I'm in front or behind you with a knife.
There is also a stab that can work from either direction. Simply take the knife and thrust it downward into the soft part of the flesh in between the collar bone on the left side in close proximity of the neck toward the heart (once again, for added fun I can give it a little twist and turn). Once again, it ends up with a knife in your heart. Of course if you wanted to be tricky you could do it from the right side and angle it (though that of course takes a slightly longer blade). Outcome: You die. (Fun fact: this was a favorite of the Romans for execution because when done right you're dead before you hit the ground).

Needless to say, to not have people who are supposed to be soldiers unable to kill someone with a knife in 1 hit is absolutely preposterous. I will say I do support you having to switch to your knife though. If they unfortunately decided to keep the "quick knife", I still suggest they keep the 1-hit kill because it is easily possible and like I explained most plausible to kill someone that way.

[WNxThentar]

Originally Posted by therandomone

Personally, I'm against the rifle bash because I love the feeling of successfully bringing a knife to a gun fight....

... I can tell you from being a US Marine for 6 years that anywhere I can kill you with a knife I can kill you faster and easier with a pistol. I can also tell you that in hand to hand combat unless they have no idea you are there your chance for a one stab kill is greatly reduced. I've been trained for combat with my K-Bar but I'd never pick it over a silenced weapon for a stealth kill. If stealth isn't needed I'd definitely not even think about pulling out my K-Bar and I'd put at least 3 rounds from my M1911 into my target.

Don't get me wrong. I like to play with my K-Bar and I was very good with it. Could reliably stick it in a tree 15 feet away and I could even juggle it flipping in around and I've never had anything but a nick from doing tricks . Looked very cool but again...not my preferred method of combat.

Being a trained as an A gunner for a M60E3 I had the choice of the M1911 or the M9. I picked the M1911. Less rounds in the clip but changing clips was fast and I'd rather hit a target 10 feet away with a few .45cal then a bunch of 9mm rounds. That was just my preference tho. And if I was out of ammo in my M60E3 and my M1911 would I go for my K-Bar? I'd probably just swing my machine gun at them.

[KILLFACE]

Originally Posted by therandomone

thrust knife through the spaces in ribs

You forgot under the ribs. Was one of the Romans favorite places with a Gladius. Only need a 2 inch hole there from memory.

[berzerkerking]

Originally Posted by therandomone

Personally, I'm against the rifle bash because I love the feeling of successfully bringing a knife to a gun fight. Sure it is slightly animalistic, but I feel like a goddamn champ when I can pull it off. Also, I think it'd be incredibly stupid to have it not 1-hit kill your opponent because why the hell would you use a knife to begin with then? I seem to be one against the world with having it be a 1-hit kill but again logistically it is easily feasible to kill someone with one hit from a knife and anyone who says otherwise clearly has little to no experience with knives (except for maybe cutting their food). I'll give three simple scenarios to explain why:

Scenario 1: If I'm behind you with a knife.
In this scenario I would knife upwards around the neck towards the skull, in doing so I sever the brain stem. By severing the brain stem you cut off motor function and basic functions like breathing. Outcome: You die.

Scenario 2: If I'm in front of you with a knife.
In this scenario I would thrust my knife through the spaces in your rib cage stabbing the heart (for added fun I give it a little twist and turn). Statistics say IF you receive immediate care (say, from a hospital) you have about a 33% chance of survival,we're on a battlefield and something tells me there are no hospital facilities on Auraxis that you can be carted of to. Outcome: You die.

Universal scenario: I'm in front or behind you with a knife.
There is also a stab that can work from either direction. Simply take the knife and thrust it downward into the soft part of the flesh in between the collar bone on the left side in close proximity of the neck toward the heart (once again, for added fun I can give it a little twist and turn). Once again, it ends up with a knife in your heart. Of course if you wanted to be tricky you could do it from the right side and angle it (though that of course takes a slightly longer blade). Outcome: You die. (Fun fact: this was a favorite of the Romans for execution because when done right you're dead before you hit the ground).

Needless to say, to not have people who are supposed to be soldiers unable to kill someone with a knife in 1 hit is absolutely preposterous. I will say I do support you having to switch to your knife though. If they unfortunately decided to keep the "quick knife", I still suggest they keep the 1-hit kill because it is easily possible and like I explained most plausible to kill someone that way.

I love this, but I'm all for bayonets as an additional cert added to slow draw knifing. The weight would slow down the character adding to the stategy portion of it.
I tend to bring a knife to a gunfight, and charge while you reload, hence the name Berzerkerking. Knives FTW cuz their shiny

[Mr DeCastellac]

I don't think there should be any 'quick-melee'. If anything, I'm a big fan of equippable melee weapons, like in PS1, or more recently, the Valve games like TF2, CS:S, DoD:S, et cetera.

However, if the devs decide to put quick-melee in, despite the majority of people not wanting it, I would prefer a rifle-bash/pistol-whip. Though that might further the 2003-testicle-spelunkers who say PS2 looks like Halo.

Also, I really hope that they don't make the quick-knife a 'seeking' weapon like Call of Duty, where if you're remotely looking at them, it moves your character close and aims the knife for you. If you're using the knife in the first place, either you're out of ammo (in which case you should probably stay out of sight in the first place), or you'd better be sneaking up on someone, in which case a homing knife would just be silly.

I really like the OP's idea for the knife. Not an instant kill, but dealing a large amount of damage and ignoring shields.