TR Soldier Rocking Camo

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Higby

No way, just talking about ways to make grief relevant deterrent when someone can easily and freely create new accounts to do stuff like TK everyone defending a base to make it easier for their real team to capture, etc. more punishing for younger characters, forgiveness when actively killing enemies, opt-in for the attacked player to actually assign grief, grief reports in sprees cause faster repercussions, that sort of thing.

Sounds like you guys have some great ideas. PS1 had a decent system that worked pretty well, but it wasn't perfect and it would struggle to keep up with F2P.

I'm sure Forgelight is affording you some new, more dynamic options for distributing grief points. I look forward to seeing it in action.

I'm glad that you are planning to include opt ins for players to assign grief. It's great having duels with team mates every now and then, and it's nice to not worry about getting weapon locked for it.

[basti]

Ah, screw it, lets leave the discussion here.

So, grief, how to fix it now that the game is F2P and you could easily be an asshat? Dunno about you, but its pretty simple: Use ways to identify the used Machine, and give it an ID. 2 accounts on the same machine ID = its the same guy. Guy gets himself grief locked one one account, logs out, and a new account with the same Machine ID gets created after that = its the same guy, transfer his grief, or better, flag him as a potential TK/cheater (can also use that to flag a cheaters Machine.) And if he starts TKing again, just grief lock him right away.

Could also add he guys IP for that stuff. Or create a uniquie key in several files of the game, to be able to identify a game installation on a certain machine.

If Key + IP + Machine are the same, its 100% the same guy
If key + Machine is the same, its still the same guy.
If Machine + IP is the same, and the new account was created rather quickly after he last fraud of the old one, its also still the same guy
If key or machine are the same, give him more room to screw up.
If only IP is the same, ignore.


And thats what i got out of my brain after about a few secs. I could most likley fill a few pages with ways to detect asshats. Im an expert there, im a asshat myself.

[DviddLeff]

Originally Posted by Higby

...we have spotting systems

Nice, really wanted to see this in game.

[Shogun]

the system highby mentioned with more restrictive grief handling for new accounts and more forgiving grief handling for veterans sounds good as well.

but it has to be based on actual playtime and not realtime age of the account, so that only the main char/account benefits from this.
otherwise i see a lot of idiots creating more than one account and using the other accounts only for griefing, but since the accounts were all created at the same time they will all have the same amount of penalty.

also, if there is some weaponlock timer, this timer has to be based on playtime as well!
just like in ps1, grieflocked players could still do supportive roles but not fire weapons. but they have to sit out the weaponlock timer ingame! so there is no logging to grief-account - achiving grieflock - logging back to main account and play until the grieftimer on the grief-account ran out to do it all again.

[Higby]

Originally Posted by basti

Words

Yeah, some form of hardware fingerprinting is something we've been discussing. There are always ways to reassign your MAC address, change that ID file we put on your PC, etc... someone would spend 10 minutes making a little visual basic app that let you switch between "installs" if we put something like that in. It's sadly all about finding the way that makes it as much of a waste of time for the hacker to get around and therefore not worth doing. We have a lot of plans to thwart this sort of stuff, but I'm not going to discuss them for obvious reasons.

[Bags]

Just write a gui interface in visual basic to track their IP address, drive to their house, and beat them up when they grief too much.

It's what CSI would do.

[Shogun]

Originally Posted by basti

I could most likley fill a few pages with ways to detect asshats. Im an expert there, im a asshat myself.

that´s nothing new ;-) you play VS, that whole empire was only made for assheads
i tried to play vs on ps1 one time, but i had no fun being teamkilled all the time, so i went back to the real soldiers of the NC

but back on the grief topic. there could never be enough ways implemented to detect assheads. because there will be a lot of them! and a few idiots can screw a perfect game for everyone!
and my faith in ps2 becoming a perfect game is growing with every bit of info or media we get!

[basti]

Originally Posted by Higby

Yeah, some form of hardware fingerprinting is something we've been discussing. There are always ways to reassign your MAC address, change that ID file we put on your PC, etc... someone would spend 10 minutes making a little visual basic app that let you switch between "installs" if we put something like that in. It's sadly all about finding the way that makes it as much of a waste of time for the hacker to get around and therefore not worth doing. We have a lot of plans to thwart this sort of stuff, but I'm not going to discuss them for obvious reasons.

Obviously.

Making it a waste of time is the way to go really. It spots the usual asshat and makes it quite troublesome for the hardcore asshat. And if you just change behaviour of your stuff every patch or two, its gonna be quite annoying to be a hardcore asshat. :>


Wonder what would happen if you read out the Windows CD-Key and just use that. Propably lawsuit.

[Crator]

Makes sense that they would keep the griefing systems and anti-hack systems a secret though...

[captainkapautz]

Originally Posted by Bags

Just write a gui interface in visual basic to track their IP address, drive to their house, and beat them up when they grief too much.

It's what CSI would do.

I fully support this.

[CutterJohn]

For griefing, just make new players do no damage to friendlies for the first 12 hours or so of actual playtime(but of course still accrue grief). Then when some punk gets the idea to do some griefing for lulz, and makes his new character, he won't be able to unless he actually plays that character for 12 hours.

Plus it keeps the new blood from being annoying to everyone else by shooting them in the back.


For hacking I got nothing.

[Hamma]

Originally Posted by Higby

Yeah, some form of hardware fingerprinting is something we've been discussing. There are always ways to reassign your MAC address, change that ID file we put on your PC, etc... someone would spend 10 minutes making a little visual basic app that let you switch between "installs" if we put something like that in. It's sadly all about finding the way that makes it as much of a waste of time for the hacker to get around and therefore not worth doing. We have a lot of plans to thwart this sort of stuff, but I'm not going to discuss them for obvious reasons.

Tie into the PSU Ban Database.. we will take care of the asshats.

[ThGlump]

Originally Posted by Higby

No way, just talking about ways to make grief relevant deterrent when someone can easily and freely create new accounts to do stuff like TK everyone defending a base to make it easier for their real team to capture, etc.

Thats why i hope there will be atleast one subscription only server. Buy to play would be good, but if its totally f2p i dont want to play it anymore. There will be 100x more cheater, hackers, trolls and bots (to fill enemy population faster and give you more easy targets) than normal players.



As for grief mechanics:

Some progressive grief damage would help. If you have zero/very low grief friendly fire would do much less damage (like 10%) but full grief (dont apply do situations where you dont get grief like FF on squad (if thats still there) so it wont be abused). As you grief increase you FF damage will increase too. It will prevent some accidental friendly kills, but if you are careless (or griefer) you will kill friendlies easily.

If you FF kill someone with (much) less grief than you have, they should have option to lock your weapons for short time (1 min) as punishment. (this is for preventing TK rampage to help other team). Long timer lock from ps1 for very high grief should be there too.

Someone with medium-high grief should be killable by anyone with less grief without grief penalty. (so you can stop griefers to kill whole squad without punishment).
Players with high grief could be visually marked so others are aware of potential threat from him (but that could be abusable with that grief free kills so rather not).

[Shogun]

i like the idea of no FF damage for new players/accounts.
like it was said some posts ago. keep the grief system in place, but make new players do no damage for the first few battleranks or for some hours of active gameplay.
i never thought of that but it sounds brilliant and will really help on 2 fronts because the nuubs will learn not to shoot their own people (for they get grief) but it will not annoy the veterans who take the backshots because they don´t get killed by them.

i would like more veterans to think about this system! what are your thoughts? any negative aspects i didn´t see?

[basti]

Originally Posted by Shogun

i like the idea of no FF damage for new players/accounts.
like it was said some posts ago. keep the grief system in place, but make new players do no damage for the first few battleranks or for some hours of active gameplay.
i never thought of that but it sounds brilliant and will really help on 2 fronts because the nuubs will learn not to shoot their own people (for they get grief) but it will not annoy the veterans who take the backshots because they don´t get killed by them.

i would like more veterans to think about this system! what are your thoughts? any negative aspects i didn´t see?

That would indeed be a simple and perfect solution. Makes it impossible to be a asshat.

What you could do is create a bunch of accounts, level them all up to be able to attack friendlys, and then jsut start being a asshat. But theres also a counter to that, simply track for such stuff, easily done. If a account just logs in to one or several chars to be a Teamkiller, ban that account. :>