Defining the role of Light Assault

[Muncher]

I liked it as it was in the streams, a lighter more mobile variation of the regular assault. I don't really like the idea of making it an explosive class, it doesn't fit well with it's mobility.

To embellish on this, I would much prefer them to be skirmishers, popping in and out and harrying larger groups of players. An explosive class just wouldn't use the vertical well, and doesn't seem to fit with the light assault at all.

Originally Posted by OutlawDr

I see clear problems with LA grenadier. So far I have liked the LA gameplay in the videos. Jump jetting and still hitting your target looks very hard to pull off requiring a good deal of skill, but with high rewards. I fear if grenades are emphasized, LA will turn into a wanna be tribes class spamming gernades and rockets from the air. This is ok in tribes since everyone has jets and is insanely mobile. In PS2, with slower pacing, they'll just have to aim in the general direction to hit their slower opponents, all the while flying like a mad monkey to avoid getting shot back.

Basically this. I really liked the LA in the streams, and I would really hate to see my hopefully main class become a boring AOE spam class.

[Sledgecrushr]

Wherever we go with this I think it would be cool if they could dual wield light weaponry. They would look bad assed swooping in for thue kill with two pistols blazing.

[Dagron]

Originally Posted by Muncher

I liked it as it was in the streams, a lighter more mobile variation of the regular assault.

To embellish on this, I would much prefer them to be skirmishers, popping in and out and harrying larger groups of players.

Yes, that's what they are and what everyone seems to like about them. We're not proposing changing that, we just want more gameplay style options.

Originally Posted by Muncher

I don't really like the idea of making it an explosive class, it doesn't fit well with it's mobility.

An explosive class just wouldn't use the vertical well, and doesn't seem to fit with the light assault at all.

I really liked the LA in the streams, and I would really hate to see my hopefully main class become a boring AOE spam class.

Yep, we've all come to agree it shouldn't become an AoE spammer over the last few pages but we did suggest a few times that they should be more of a utility type grenadier than the explosive type. What i'd like to see are thoughts, suggestions or alternatives to that.

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

Wherever we go with this I think it would be cool if they could dual wield light weaponry. They would look bad assed swooping in for thue kill with two pistols blazing.

You're a fan of the fett man, right?

[GuyFawkes]

Originally Posted by Electrofreak

While this may be true, they still need skills and abilities to certify in. The question is ultimately what that will be... right now it's ammo resupply which the developers clearly are not comfortable with, and I agree with them. Players have suggested LA be grenadiers, or special-ops using placed explosives (which makes me think of sappers) to take out defenses in advance of an assault.

Other options are scouts, anti-area-denial, or light AI/AV/AA as I suggested.

While we may say "LA fit their role just fine", we still need to define what their abilities may be.

I think their skills and abilities will focus around what they are, will the jump jets be everlasting like in e3 demo, or will it have some sort of limitation like the vs maxes had in ps1? How long can they jump, can they increase/decrease speed at expense of accuracy etc , just a few. Maybe dropping flares or smoke bombs for following teams or just to make a quick exit unseen .

[Dagron]

Originally Posted by GuyFawkes

I think their skills and abilities will focus around what they are, will the jump jets be everlasting like in e3 demo, or will it have some sort of limitation like the vs maxes had in ps1? How long can they jump, can they increase/decrease speed at expense of accuracy etc , just a few. Maybe dropping flares or smoke bombs for following teams or just to make a quick exit unseen .

I don't know what the PS1 limitations were, but the E3 ones didn't seem everlasting: the jump seemed to only barely make it to the inside of the outer walls.

Besides, you could tell the forward momentum dropped very quickly so it's utility is pretty limited to vertical movement.

[TheInferno]

Don't suppose anyone can do some good ol' fashioned science and see how long of a jump burst the Light Assault had by looking at the fuel bar in the bottom right (normal) or on the left side of the reticule (centered)?

[OutlawDr]

I've been wanting to give LA an advanced spotting ability thats different from the Inf's, doesn't promote more lone wolf behavior, and has synergy with squad members and even the Inf own spotting ability.

Heres an idea. A LA players spots and broadcasts like normal, however as long as he stays within 25-30m (or whatever range is deemed balanced) the target will remain spotted for all squad members see. It doesn't just work with targets that the LA spotted but with any target spotted by a squad member. So if a Inf spots a target it will remain spotted if an LA in his squad remains within range of it.

[Muncher]

I think binoculars that would let them spot farther away players would help them as scouts.

[Kriegson]

Ultimately, I think this is something we're going to need hands on experience to determine. The role in and of itself should be complementary to both squad and total force (infantry, Air, Armor) tactics.

The basis of the idea is mobility, with the additions of grenades that can function on a tactical level, or are forced to in order to make the most of them. You can toss a frag into a room and wound a few soldiers (in PS), but with a flashbang and a few voice commands, you can clear it.

Smoke is most useful in certain context. If your force is advancing, throw smoke in front of the enemy to conceal them. If your enemies are bunkered down, use smoke to make their position useless and to conceal some frags throw in afterwards.

The assault is the spearhead of a more subtle variety. Mobility over raw force, concealing yourself from the enemy or outright blinding them rather than "hiding" as an infiltrator will need to do. Taking perches to fire down on engagements rather than wading into them.

[Noivad]

For those interested FM 3-21.8 describes a US Military Rifle Platoon and Squad. Google it.


The following for those of you trying to mix classes or roles of Infanty Type Warriors.

PS1 had Light Assult - It used a weapon called the supressor and was very effective with it. Over distance a supressor would cut through Rexo armor, even Max Armor in seconds, especially if it was being used with concertrated fire from more then one warrior. Hint: Team Play Insert Here.

There was also medium, heavy, and special assult. they had their own role.

Real World Infantry Squads.

Light Assult is Airborne Special Forces - Airborne, and Air Assult Troops. They jump out of aircraft, or get flown in by helicopter.

They move fast, are air mobile, Rapid deployment type troops. The 124th Infantry, 101st Airbourne, 10 Mountain come to mind. That means no big weapons. You can carry only so much on your back.

They work behind and flank enemy positions taking out Command and Control,
Air defense, Communication, artillary type units.

Medium Assult Troops deployed are grunts - Straight Leggers who hump on two leggs. They get a ride whenever they can by anyone. They are the main stay of any Army. The Pure {Grunt} Infantry.

Heavy Assult - Are Mechanized Infantry types, with all the Specialized Infantry equipment. Anti Armor ect. They get driven into battle areas. So is their equipment.

Maxes would be like support units - Air Defense Artillary, Artillary, TOE Squads, ect.

The Basic Infanty Squad is comprosed of:
NOTE: Not A heavy weapons Squad.

Squad Leader
The squad leader holds a rank of Staff Sergeant. Staff Sergeants are armed with either an M16A2, or M4A1. They are equipped with binoculars as well as an assortment of grenades. Grenade load outs will vary based on mission requirements, and rules of engagement. As a squad leader they direct fire team movements, therefore must know where their team leaders are located at all times.

Fire Team Leader
The fire team leader holds a rank of Sergeant. Sergeants command one of the 4-man fire teams in each squad. A team leader is armed with either an M16A2 or M4A1. They are provided binoculars

Private
Other members of the squad have a starting rank of private. They can be riflemen, automatic riflemen or grenadiers.

Automatic Rifleman
The automatic rifleman (AR) is wields the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW). This Soldier provides high volumes of fire due, however at the cost of weight. An AR can play a support role by deploying the bipod on the SAW to improve the weapon’s accuracy.

Grenadier
The grenadier is a basic rifleman with the added ability to launch grenades. A grenadier is armed with the M203, which is an M16A2 with a mounted M203 grenade launcher. The M203 can fire 40mm high explosive projectiles, which have an effective kill radius of about 5-meters.

Rifleman
The rifleman is the basic component of an infantry squad. They are armed with either an M16A2 or M4A1. They tend to be equipped with more grenades (e.g.: fragmentation, smoke, stun) compared to their counterparts since they carry less equipment than their counterparts.

Advanced Marksman
The Advanced Marksman is issued a highly accurate rifle. They are the squad’s designated marksman (sniper) and therefore are used to provide accurate long-range rifle fire with either the M24 SWS or M82A1 rifles. Due to the nature of their mission, they have also been issued the M9 Beretta Pistol.

Hope this enlightens some of you.

[RageMasterUK]

I actually think the ammo drop feature for LA might not be that bad when the servers fill up for real. Everyone who is not LA is really going to have love for them. Ammo runs for your squad in heavy combat could be an epic premise, win loss class dependent team based moments. It folds LA into a squad logic quite well IMO.

My true opinion is that Light Assault looks balanced and has its place already with the JetPack feature, but I have this radical idea, so I'll fire from the hip, just for kicks.

I got an idea that assists the LA in the skirmisher role. Some sort of short duration phaseshifting combat teleport feature thingy.


FLASHBACK TELEPORTER
When a light assault triggers the special, their position is remembered, they get to move and shoot for 1-2 seconds (or whatever a balanced duration is) before they flash-warp back to where they activated the special. Then their cooldown starts. There would be appropriate visual effects so people know whats happening. Would provide a deception and scouting element to Light Assault combat.


Could be used in many ways. You could use it in direct combat to flash back so you appear behind an opponent foolishly chasing you around a corner. You could break cover to draw fire from snipers only to snap back in cover. You could scout around corners for your friendlies, draw fire and flash back to your squads medic before the grenades blow up.

Open fire from one side of a corridor, then from another. Draw an impending Mag-mower roadkiller to one side of the road, and snap back to the other side before impact. Strafeshoot twice through a narrow window at the enemy while travelling in the same direction both passes.

It could allow you to get in close to place C4 and get outside the blast radius easier. Drop down from upon high for a kill, and regain your height advantage instantly w/o using jetfuel.

Obv to say it would need an apt enough cooldown to be an ace-in-the-hole, keep it till you really need it kinda feature. It would bend players heads Yes the light assault class should be the head-bending class.

I dont know how serious I am about the idea but I thought I'd pitch it anyway!

-RageMasterUK

[TheInferno]

So it's basically like Mark & Recall from Morrowind except the Recall automatically occurs a certain period of time after the Mark?

Seems interesting, but I'd prefer the Light Assault kept the jetpack on it's own, honestly.

[diLLa]

That ability just doesn't fit in a competitive shooter.

[Sledgecrushr]

Since the LA class is going to be operating pretty much independently from the bulk of your forces perhaps the LA should be able to spec in a simple way into the other classes. Maybe we should have kind of a light medic with a jump pack, light engineer, etc..

[TheInferno]

I'd rather not have Light Assault become Light Everything, honestly.