Sniping Mechanics and Headshots

[Vancha]

Why are people still assuming sniper headshots will be a regular occurrence? We don't know they'll even be reliably executable.

[Aurmanite]

Originally Posted by Warborn

They're supposed to take stuff that's good from popular shooters and augment it to make it more accessible to people who are more casual players. Part of that means making the potential for skill disparity to have somewhat less of an effect. That's where stuff like a higher TTK and very limited one-shot kills comes in.

When it comes to sniper shots especially I think one-shot-kills are a bad idea due to the distances that are involved in the game. Even in PS1 where you didn't have any sniper one-shot-kills generally speaking (infiltrators/wounded guys aside) snipers were still quite a presence in fights. I think people should be incredibly wary of doing anything that would make snipers more potent, because many fights will involve very wide-open areas. Plus, people won't be able to heal themselves as easily in the sequel, so snipers which require multiple hits to kill targets will find themselves better-off by the fact that not everyone has a medical device this time.

I disagree. I don't believe they need to make it more accessible. Planetside 2 is going after a very specific market segment. It's a big segment, but it's a segment none-the-less.

People who play shooters expect to play a shooter. They don't expect to have watered down, hold-my-hand, shooter lite mechanics. Neither do I. We all want depth and breadth in our games, and this cannot be achieved by cherry picking things we like from other games and then diluting them.

The hardest part about Planetside had nothing to do with shooting mechanics or the game play engine. It was trying to figure out what the hell to do, how to find your place on the field. Essentially, the MMO part was the least accessible portion of Planetside.

Once someone figured that out, the actual FPS part was exactly the same as almost every shooter that has ever been made, with a slightly different flavor.

[Gandhi]

Originally Posted by Furret

Would you then propose that tanks be taken out of the game because they're able to kill you with one tank shell? I happen to know its a HELL of a lot easier to hit the ground near a trooper than pick his head off.

Except you can see and hear a tank coming, giving you a chance to react and possibly even save yourself. That makes all the difference.

[sylphaen]

Originally Posted by Furret

Do you know how far 1000 meters is? That shot is not just going to happen, with bullet drop, wind speed, the enemy MOVING AROUND. I'm an avid sniper in PS1, and just with travel time alone, aiming for the body, I only hit about 60% of my shots from 200+ meters. I don't know if you think a bullet to the toe and a bullet to the head will do the same amount of damage, but OSOK applies (i would hope) only to the head.

If what you describe is an accurate picture of how hard sniping in PS2 will be, that kind of OSOK should actually be rewarded. A near-miss on the first shot would give a situation similar to PS1 and if a first shot landed, a second one is quite possible to land before anyone gets healed (dedicated medic class in PS2?).

My issue though is:
how do you prevent someone from sniping/headshotting indoors if the gun is that potentially powerful?

[Aurmanite]

Originally Posted by Gandhi

Except you can see and hear a tank coming, giving you a chance to react and possibly even save yourself. That makes all the difference.

This is not always true.

In fact, if a tank driver is doing his or her job correctly, any infantry should be dead before they hear it coming.

[Warborn]

Tanks and really all vehicles were actually incredibly quiet in Planetside. You really couldn't hear them until they were right on you. So yeah, hearing a tank coming wasn't a thing that typically happened before you died. Similarly, reavers/mosquitoes could actually sneak up on infantry pretty easily.

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

Once someone figured that out, the actual FPS part was exactly the same as almost every shooter that has ever been made, with a slightly different flavor.

You're aware there were no headshots of any kind in Planetside and that there were very few one-shot-kills anywhere in the game? Making bullets in the head one-shot-kill territory would be a pretty dramatic departure from the kind of gameplay Planetside 1 had.

As for the rest, I don't want to restate what I already did so I'll simply say that underestimating the value or size of the casual FPS gamer market would be a mistake. I want Planetside 2 to be really popular and do really well. Making it a game where really good gamers can easily headshot less experienced gamers and make the game very frustrating for them would be a step backwards in that respect.

Originally Posted by Vancha

Why are people still assuming sniper headshots will be a regular occurrence? We don't know they'll even be reliably executable.

Long range sniping I wouldn't worry about so much, but medium range headshots with sniper rifles would be very dominant if headshots are lethal for snipers.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Warborn

Long range sniping I wouldn't worry about so much, but medium range headshots with sniper rifles would be very dominant if headshots are lethal for snipers.

We still don't know how easy it'll be at even medium range, which is assuming damage isn't range-based. Maybe the further away you are, the more damage you'll do (zomg unrealistic!)

[Aurmanite]

Originally Posted by Warborn

You're aware there were no headshots of any kind in Planetside and that there were very few one-shot-kills anywhere in the game? Making bullets in the head one-shot-kill territory would be a pretty dramatic departure from the kind of gameplay Planetside 1 had.

As for the rest, I don't want to restate what I already did so I'll simply say that underestimating the value or size of the casual FPS gamer market would be a mistake. I want Planetside 2 to be really popular and do really well. Making it a game where really good gamers can easily headshot less experienced gamers and make the game very frustrating for them would be a step backwards in that respect.

Again.

Modern Warfare.
Hardcore game.
Loads of OSK's.
Lowest TTK ever.
Most successful franchise in shooter history.

But you didn't really address anything I said in my post, and you just restated the things you've already said, so it's basically zero sum.

If people got frustrated by headshot OSK's, and that was backwards movement in FPS's, explain the current trends in the genre.

Annnnnnd go.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

Modern Warfare.
Hardcore game.

Sorry, did you just call Modern Warfare a hardcore game?

[Knightwyvern]

Guys, don't forget. This is combined arms. Sniper giving you trouble outdoors? Options. Countersnipe, bring in air cav, tank, etc. Indoors? MAX. Explosives.

Yes, it's inconvenient having a sniper shooting at you, that's the point.

[EZShot]

A. We have no idea how difficult it will be to revive fallen team mates - This I believe would have a massive influence on this discussion as this ultimately dictates how annoying it would be to drop dead with one shot.

B. As far as sniping goes in PS1 I never enjoyed it despite being a huge fan and sniper in almost all FPS's since '97, yet, in PS I always found it more fun to use flying vehicles and max suits. I would like to see OSOK (in the face) but with a real slow time to reload. Bolt action. Add to this wind, bullet drop, light, glare, stray bullets etc.. and you're making it really hard for a sniper to concentrate on the head let alone the trigger.

I don't understand why everyone is so against this. TTK has been dramatically reduced with all weapons throughout the game. Why not let the sniper have a damage upgrade too?

EDIT: And another thing, we're not playing with 133 players a side any more, you'll be part of a much bigger pack and the battle line could well be moving much more quickly which will make the snipers work a lot harder to stay in a good position.

[Furret]

Originally Posted by Warborn

good gamers can easily headshot

This will not be an issue, because headshots will not be easy.

Originally Posted by sylphaen

My issue though is:
how do you prevent someone from sniping/headshotting indoors if the gun is that potentially powerful?

This has been discussed before, but it's in the depths of a thread everyone is probably too lazy to find.

-Lore about sniper bullets absorbing nanites from the atmosphere in flight so that they power up the farther they go (reaching maximum power around 100m)
-Scope thats base zoom is high enough that it becomes unmanageable in close quarters, and becomes reasonable around 75-100m (assumes sniper either cant be hipfired or has an unreasonable spread from the hip)

[Checowsky]

Originally Posted by Furret

This will not be an issue, because headshots will not be easy.





This has been discussed before, but it's in the depths of a thread everyone is probably too lazy to find.

-Lore about sniper bullets absorbing nanites from the atmosphere in flight so that they power up the farther they go (reaching maximum power around 100m)
-Scope thats base zoom is high enough that it becomes unmanageable in close quarters, and becomes reasonable around 75-100m (assumes sniper either cant be hipfired or has an unreasonable spread from the hip)

So very hard with bullet drop and bullet speed.

My BF3 stats:



I'd love to have this but if I'm honest it would not be a good thing.

[Aurmanite]

Originally Posted by Checowsky

So very hard with bullet drop and bullet speed.

My BF3 stats:

I'd love to have this but if I'm honest it would not be a good thing.

You have 43% accuracy.

Of that 43%, 76% are headshots.

That looks pretty damn balanced to me.

[Raka Maru]

We must be bored while waiting for more content and beta, cuz every sniper thread, MBT thread turn into a debate...

I like my MCG, sniper rifle, Max suit, and all vehicles. What's disturbing is some people think, just because I have my sniper hat on at the time that I put a bullet through them that I'm having less fun than when I spray 100 rounds at close range, or cuz I'm stealthing and hacking base turrets, that I'm missing out on the front line action.

It's a play style, do whatever you like. I know I do...