Defining the role of Light Assault

[Grognard]

Originally Posted by TheInferno

...though, wait, don't we already have things like Smoke Grenades and Flashbang Grenades, as well as some others? I don't know if that affects anything, but it's something to keep in mind. A wider variety or perhaps a greater amount of grenades carried would be nice, to be honest.

Precisely the precedent I extrapolated the LA being a "grenadier" from

[Knightwyvern]

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

Errr no. Removing our ability to fix shit, is like removing cloak from infil.

As a Br30 Cr5 Engy (how to put this nicely) I don't give a fuck about that portable turret. We place mines, we place spits, we ride in armor and air, and we may even fucking shit out ammo too. We good. Please LA take the fucking mobile turret.

To me it's a simple job exchange, that doesn't nerf either class.

Well considering there is no AI controlled spitfire turret AFAIK, a man-able, powerful fixed turret seems like a good option. They look pretty damn effective in the streams.

[Dagron]

Originally Posted by Grognard

However, speaking as a prior marine, and a future LA, I think giving the turret to the LA is not so synergistic as the grenadier aspect. Turrets are, in fact, stationary, and they are devices that smack of engineer. Light Assault screams grenadier to me, cause grenades are far less "heavy gear" than, say... heavy AV/AA rocket launchers for the HA class.

Taking 2 grenade types from the Engineer, and adding them to the Light Assault class, establishes (for lack of a better term) it as the "grenadier" secondary role. The engineer isnt as well suited to being a mobile grenadier, as its function seems more support / defensive, to me. I think as an engineer I would probably want to fix, turret up, mine, and claymore, in otherwords fortify my position, than try to run out and hunt vehicles with stickies, etc.

So moving that (grenadier) role to the Light Assault class, assures the light assault of a good secondary synergistic role to supplant the ammo utility that befits the engineer better, and relieves the engineer of a role they are less apt to use, given what they already need to do.

Sounds right to me.

Originally Posted by OutlawDr

I see clear problems with LA grenadier. So far I have liked the LA gameplay in the videos. Jump jetting and still hitting your target looks very hard to pull off requiring a good deal of skill, but with high rewards. I fear if grenades are emphasized, LA will turn into a wanna be tribes class spamming gernades and rockets from the air. This is ok in tribes since everyone has jets and is insanely mobile. In PS2, with slower pacing, they'll just have to aim in the general direction to hit their slower opponents, all the while flying like a mad monkey to avoid getting shot back.

Since grenades cost resources, they might not be so inclined to spam them. I could be wrong though.

[TheInferno]

Ah. Fair enough!

I still don't exactly like the idea of using a rocket launcher against light infantry, but whatever. I'll just wait until I'm closer to the ground to hit my booster so the lock-on can't get me.

[Electrofreak]

Originally Posted by OutlawDr

I see clear problems with LA grenadier. So far I have liked the LA gameplay in the videos. Jump jetting and still hitting your target looks very hard to pull off requiring a good deal of skill, but with high rewards. I fear if grenades are emphasized, LA will turn into a wanna be tribes class spamming gernades and rockets from the air. This is ok in tribes since everyone has jets and is insanely mobile. In PS2, with slower pacing, they'll just have to aim in the general direction to hit their slower opponents, all the while flying like a mad monkey to avoid getting shot back.

This is a valid concern... nobody wants to see LA turn into the lame "AoE spammer" class. If LA was to become a sturmgrenadier sub-class, grenade use would have to be limited.

[OutlawDr]

Originally Posted by Dagron

Since grenades cost resources, they might not be so inclined to spam them. I could be wrong though.

Spamming wouldn't mean using them ineffectively. More like throwing them frequently with less need for accuracy. If its effective, cost be damn. You can look over the bill once you've won the firefights and taken over the base.

[Xyntech]

I think I would be okay with LA having AOE weapons as long as the ammo cost resources and they could only fire them while their feet were on the ground. Some people may not like that kind of arbitrary limit of not allowing those weapons to be fired while airborne, but I think it would be tolerable as well as go a long way towards balancing the class.

[Knightwyvern]

Originally Posted by Grognard

However, speaking as a prior marine, and a future LA, I think giving the turret to the LA is not so synergistic as the grenadier aspect. Turrets are, in fact, stationary, and they are devices that smack of engineer. Light Assault screams grenadier to me, cause grenades are far less "heavy gear" than, say... heavy AV/AA rocket launchers for the HA class.

Taking 2 grenade types from the Engineer, and adding them to the Light Assault class, establishes (for lack of a better term) it as the "grenadier" secondary role. The engineer isnt as well suited to being a mobile grenadier, as its function seems more support / defensive, to me. I think as an engineer I would probably want to fix, turret up, mine, and claymore, in otherwords fortify my position, than try to run out and hunt vehicles with stickies, etc.

So moving that (grenadier) role to the Light Assault class, assures the light assault of a good secondary synergistic role to supplant the ammo utility that befits the engineer better, and relieves the engineer of a role they are less apt to use, given what they already need to do.

Bam. Well put, agreed completely.

Of course this is all dependent on whether or not the resource cost of grenades will be balanced just right, so they will be usable but not overly spammable.

[Synapse]

So many good ideas!

This thread is bursting with them! Let's make it happen!

[Dagron]

Originally Posted by OutlawDr

Spamming wouldn't mean using them ineffectively. More like throwing them frequently with less need for accuracy. If its effective, cost be damn. You can look over the bill once you've won the firefights and taken over the base.

I suppose. Then perhaps giving them more utility grenades instead of more destructive grenades could work?

They already have flashbang and smoke grenades, so maybe slow grenades (sticky goo) or concussive grenades (low dmg, high knockback)... That kind of stuff.

[Electrofreak]

I'm impressed with the amount of thought going into the posts in this thread so far. There's gotta be more ideas out there, let's keep 'em comin' in for sure.

Originally Posted by Dagron

I suppose. Then perhaps giving them more utility grenades instead of more destructive grenades could work?

They already have flashbang and smoke grenades, so maybe slow grenades (sticky goo) or concussive grenades (low dmg, high knockback)... That kind of stuff.

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing them have share the EMP grenade with infil. That said, I don't want to overextend LA by stealing TOO much from other classes.

[Electrofreak]

herp derp double post

[TheInferno]

Hmm. I still like it as is out of all the ideas considering the other points raised. AoE spam wouldn't be that fun.

Can the deployable turrets actually pan down at all? Seems like they can only look side to side and up. Pretty worthless to give to the Light Assault in that case.

Besides, it's just... turrets, fortifications, all that stuff does seem to belong with the Engineer. I'd rather see them overloaded than give the Light Assault the turret.

[Grognard]

Originally Posted by OutlawDr

I see clear problems with LA grenadier. So far I have liked the LA gameplay in the videos. Jump jetting and still hitting your target looks very hard to pull off requiring a good deal of skill, but with high rewards. I fear if grenades are emphasized, LA will turn into a wanna be tribes class spamming gernades and rockets from the air. This is ok in tribes since everyone has jets and is insanely mobile. In PS2, with slower pacing, they'll just have to aim in the general direction to hit their slower opponents, all the while flying like a mad monkey to avoid getting shot back.

I thought about this too, and I agree you are correct. To be clear, and fairly address your concern, I think jumping and chucking could be too much tribes BS, TBH. However, I still think LA / grenadier is sound. There are ways to kill the spam, by simply putting JJs and nades on the same cool down. Or, perhaps grenades are already on a timer, and it might be moot, or need an adjustment.

My grenadier suggestion is based around the idea that a LA can get into position better, not be a hopping fool who just chucks AOE. I dont want that either.

Point taken, and agreed.

[Dagron]

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

With the turret the LA has to be in harm's way to make kills. Even if he has the high ground, the grunt has some sense of (false) hope he can shoot LA dead.

Now an LA jumping on top of something to spam lethal nads while being inaccessible to that grunt's rifle, is just never going to fucking happen. It breaks the gaming mechanics. So no way will they ever get lethal nads.

I still don't see turrets leaving the hands of engis, no matter what one of them says (however important/competent he was), the majority of them won't want to hear it.

I agree that grenades could cause too much havoc, which is why i suggested utility grenades instead of dmg ones.