Quick Knife - Is it really the best option?

[HeatLegend]

I dont get what people have against melee in an FPS game? Wether it should be quick or not is another thing, but in my opinion it is both realistic and more fun to have an alternative when you happen to get up close or behind someone rather than mow them down with bullets and give yourself away.

I remember in Bad Company 2 I had this one profile called Jack Ze Ripper on which I only used my knife and gadgets such as mortar (not to kill, just to cover myself when I changed position, it was good cover). I often used to be among the top with a KD above 1.

This one time I played Rush on Valparaiso I think it was in a full-game, and I got the Ace and Gold Squad-pin with 25/20 KD. Had to screenshot it, I dont think I've ever had a greater adrenaline rush while gaming than I had during those 20 minutes.

Anyway, that was just for fun when I had pretty much finished playing the game in its real fashion and wanted a challenge.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3778469_o.jpg <<<<<<<<< aah, the memories

It says "39" kills below, never got what that was, maybe they counted in assists in that.

And to those who you see are really bad at going melee, just think of them as free kills, it wont hurt- Melees are the ones that are at a disadvantage.

[Frotang]

Originally Posted by Hermes

Here's a reason.

When you need to reload, or have a weapon you can't run and gun with, and an enemy is right up in your face... you feel impotent. The game feels limited because you can't take it to close quarters, which is what your instincts are screaming at you to do.

So your basically saying in the heat of battle you stress out and want a quick one button solution to your current problem (no ammo and enemy in your face). While a more tactical and skillful player could assess the situation and decide if they have time to equip their knife and fight or choose an alternate solution. Ya I guess we should make it easy for your "instincts" to kick in sure why not.

[Dart]

Originally Posted by Frotang

So your basically saying in the heat of battle you stress out and want a quick one button solution to your current problem (no ammo and enemy in your face). While a more tactical and skillful player could assess the situation and decide if they have time to equip their knife and fight or choose an alternate solution. Ya I guess we should make it easy for your "instincts" to kick in sure why not.

Precisely. The short response to anyone asking for a "quick knife"? L2p!

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by Frotang

So your basically saying in the heat of battle you stress out and want a quick one button solution to your current problem (no ammo and enemy in your face). While a more tactical and skillful player could assess the situation and decide if they have time to equip their knife and fight or choose an alternate solution.

Hah! Well a non damaging quick melee is not a solution but a chain allowing another tactic. A tactical and skillful player would like a variety of balanced counters to any situation.

Here's the idea though, if you don't have time to reload or swap your weapon your solutions are to die or die while reloading. And it feels 1 dimensional to watch yourself sit through that if someone is right next to you.

Originally Posted by Frotang

Ya I guess we should make it easy for your "instincts" to kick in sure why not.

How dare you impune my instincts with quotes!

You've deliberately mis-constructed what I said as a one shot kill i-win button. Please try to be constructive.

[Frotang]

Well Im not a fan of over complicating mele by having all these different options for a knife/ rifle bash/ stun or whatever. Just have an equippable knife that you must manually attack and aim with thats it plain and simple.

And I didn't interpret your instincts as a OHK. I interpreted it as a panicked "omg no ammo guy in my face spam for my mele key! Phew thank goodness for the game being able to translate my single key push into a combination of actions that I can now refer to as my instincts" option.

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by Dart

But cyco the reason I'm against quick knives isn't just because it'll be annoying as hell having guys stab you with a third arm (or rifile-butt you in the face, Hermes) whenever they run out of ammo but also because it'll mean that guys who're actually GOOD with a knife will be reduced to the same 'one button wonder' tactics that everyone else uses. It's removing an entire facet of the game which actually encourages skill and replacing it with one that doesn't.

My one button tactic ain't a wonder. It's not effective by itself, and is useless except when you are bumping noses in a corridor.

Without a doubt, im fully against any implementation of this that replaces gun play in medium range firefights.

Originally Posted by Dart

And Hermes, in my opinion, if you have a knife you can equip there is absolutely not need for any kind of one button escape route. That isn't an extra dimension, that's a crutch.

It's an extra dimension as it gives you an option for when you don't have enough time for a weapon swap. Which has to be slow enough to prevent the equipped knife being a quick knife. And I agree that a high damage quick knife is a poor game addition.

It's only a crutch if it's use always signifys a win. What it should do is force another round of reactions from attacker and defender, or allow teamwork:

- I'm almost dead, I spank the opponent, my team mate drops him.
- I'm out of ammo, I spank the opponent, dodge towards cover to reload he tracks faster and still wins

Cooldowns, immunity from further spanks, lack of damage, these things all prevent it becoming a one hit wonder or spammable tactic. And it's only usable when you are up close. People only forgo shooting altogether in favour of melee because they know if they get close they win. This is not the case with what I propose.

Originally Posted by Dart

If you want to add an extra dimension, create a thread about more melee options such as parrying.

The poll has an option for rifle butt. I posted how I saw rifle butts being used a while back. The OP thought it was an interesting idea. The thread is called "Quick Knife - Is it really the best option?".

I think I'm allowed in this thread with my rifle butt idea thanks!

EDIT: Added some clarity.

[Sledgecrushr]

The only way I can see anything like a quick knife would be a quick thrust of your rifle with a bayonet attached to it. Otherwise quickknifing third arm physics dont make sense at all.

[LZachariah]

If it were me, to try and satisfy 1. The modern-day-shooter-crowd, 2. The Planetside purists, and 3. The Assassin's Creed/Hitman crowd, I would make it that there is a quick-knife command that "does some damage" (depending on the enemy's armor and what certs/implants you have) and you could also "equip" your knife for auto-kills (this would not work on a MAX unit).

I think that would be my preferential balance. To be honest, this isn't too big an issue to me either way :-)

~Zachariah

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by LZachariah

To be honest, this isn't too big an issue to me either way :-)

~Zachariah

You know In my heart of hearts this is how I feel too.

I can put forward an idea that I like, but the outcome isn't a game breaker for me. However it does occupy me while I'm compiling.

[Hrongar]

They didn't teach us to pull out our knives in close quarters when we had a solid hunk of gun which could bludgeon very well. (bayonet optional etc etc)

Plus you already have the weapon in your hand, the knife needs to be drawn first. So I prefer rifle bash as melee with the option to equip a knife.

And yes putting on a quicklock knife holster etc etc CQC
METAL GEAR!!!!!!

Yes Yes I know

[MrKWalmsley]

Also, now that you mention it, fixed bayonets for those hardcore CQC fighters!

[Talek Krell]

I agree with the OP on the aesthetics of the matter. The major downside is that quick knifing, from the design perspective, is not just the easy but also the cheap way out. A more complex system needs more animation, graphical work, and balancing to back it up and none of that is free. Still, it would be a nice thing.

For balance I'd like to see quick melee be lightly damaging and somewhat disruptive. Maybe a bit of knock back or screen shake. More damage from the back.
Drawing the knife would allow you to do some more serious damage. Turn on the secondary and attack from behind and it would probably be a fair one shot.

I like the bayonet idea too, I think.

[Dairian]

On this subject PS1 had it right. Equip your knife when out and ammo or if you have an implant booster. I use to cloak with the implant and knife people 2 times in the first mode and own. It wasn't that hard but you had to wait for your stamina to re-gen to do it again. Which kept it from being OP. Why have quick knife when you have a gun in your hand?

[captainkapautz]

In case noone said it yet.

Both quick-knife and equip-knife, please.

Quick-knife takes 2-4 hits to kill, equip-knife allows for 1-hit killmoves.

Or in short, steal BF3s knife.

[Phellix]

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

In case noone said it yet.

Both quick-knife and equip-knife, please.

Quick-knife takes 2-4 hits to kill, equip-knife allows for 1-hit killmoves.

Or in short, steal BF3s knife.

I'd say QK 3-4, equip 2, 1 hit would make stealthers silly retardedly op