The Jackhammer

[Ducimus]

Lately ive been detaching myself from this argument and just observing it. Threads like this are almost a case study of human nature. What facinates me zealous nature of NC players when it comes to the JH.

Of this i'm certain:
1. Everyone here is biased.

2. Nobody here will ever change anyone else's mind on the subject. Ever.


I have to say that avoiding a person with a JH is damn near impossible. The argument to stay out of their range, when it comes to base/tower capping is about as air tight as a submarine with a screen door. If there is an effective counter to the JH in any typical base encounter i think it has yet to be found if one exists at all.

[ZionsFire]

Ummm yeah for all u stupid people hmmmmm let me think.............
ITS A FRIGGIN TRI BARRELED SHOTGUN IDIOTS!
u scream for nerf we all scream for nerf.

[Winged_Nazgul]

Originally posted by Diviant
So, here's just an opinion from an NC who DOES think the hammer is overpowered.

You'd be a lot more convincing if you didn't have this as your empire of choice:

[Madcow]

This whole thread has turned into a fascinating sociology experiment. NC folk defending the Jackhammer tooth and nail that it's definitely balanced and fine with throwaway comments about how it wouldn't bother them at all if it was nerfed. This seems to have struck quite a nerve. I still think they should improve the other 2 heavies, but it seems pretty obvious there is a balance issue and that our friendly NC folk are working on a raging case of denial. I don't think 90% of the NC are throwing the Jackhammer around, but I do know that last night I lost a battle to somebody with a punisher and I was ecstatic because it was the first time I'd been killed by NC in a few days that wasn't:
Reaver
Sniper
Infil (knife)
There's an awful lot of guns out there that I just wasn't seeing. Maybe not everybody that is out there is carrying a Jackhammer, but the majority of the kills for NC come on the business end of one. You say don't be disappointed if the devs don't notice what we notice. I say don't be disappointed when they do.

[Winged_Nazgul]

I personally won't be disappointed if they do decide to nerf it. I have already gone on record as saying it's not the gun for me. I can get more kills faster in the same area the JH excels in with a Cycler. But I will also now go on record as saying that if the devs are sincere in saying they rely on hard data over fan whining that they will not nerf the JH.

[Revolver]

Originally posted by Jarlo
It is a great weapon, they shouldn't change it. Decrease the CoF on mini chaingun and increase dmg/speed on lasher.

I agree. I feel sorry youy TR have to put up with the CoF on your Mini-Chaingun. I'm in favor of shrinking it, or at least slowing it's reticule growth rate. As for the lasher, the projectiles could move a little faster. Not like Pulsar fast, but faster.

[Arakiel]

Originally posted by Led
Funny that no one ever bitched about it in beta...

Interestingly, the striker and the jackhammer were both pretty awful weapons up until about the last 2 weeks of beta.

Sony, as is wont for them, overcompensated a bit. Surprise surprise ;p

[Led]

Nothing ever changed with the striker except fixing the lock bug...

I still believe the hammer in its current form is fine. Other heavy weapons are obviously lacking.

I still get my ass owned when caught in a situation disadvantageous to my weaponry loadout. My skill as a player is not merely twitch, it is engineering encounters to be as advantageous to me as possible.

The problem is, there is no way to really create such a situation using the other heavy weapons. This is not the hammers fault... the chaingun is supposed to be viable at a longer range than the hammer. The lasher is supposed to be better at range than the hammer, and better closer up than the chaingun.

Again I state that the other heavy weapons need fixing, not the hammer itself... nerfing of the hammer will require changing the sweeper. And then the rocklet...

This nerf wave needs to be stopped, now, before it gets insanely out of hand, as what happened to DAoC. Every damn patch is some stupid insane readjustment

[OneManArmy]

look you nerf the jackhammer then you have to nerf the lasher, then the cycle of nerfs will start all over again with a terran weapon, then etc..etc...

[tazz]

the jackhammer is a fine, it has never bothered me. the only people who seem to really care about nerfing or unnerfing the jackhammer are noobs or ppl who get 1kill per death.

the jackhammer is designed for indoor, so my tip for you in not being killed by it is to keep moving and to use the AMP. 90% of teh time u will came out with only a scratch.

The key is to keep moving, ive seen to many ppl just stop and shoot, they are the first to go.

[TheRegurgitator]

the jh is a very very fair weapon in my opinion i dont use it becuase its not my kind of gun i prefer longer range but ive only been killed by it about 1-3 times by people that actually THINK and loot the bodies of the soldiers with those

[Ducimus]

As per stopping the nerf wave. It won't. Its already been set in motion. This is Sony where talking about here. Whos the developer? Don't tell me verant? Even if its not verant, their all under the same publishing roof.

Once the nerf bat swings into motion, it won't stop until we're all devoid of anything that was a cutting edge. In a way, it bothers me, that its so, and in away, i really dont give a damn. Truthfully, every nerf that NC get (id say VS but they're in sincere need of a boost) ill feel that much less angry about any nerf to my own faction. I'd expect nothing less from an NC player. The nature of nerfs in this game, is a bit more on a personal level.

Past MMO games were RPGs. Nerfs only effect people you worked with, in this game, nerfs effect the people your against, not with, or your ability to compete. Nobody likes nerfs in a game like this. Its like getting the refferee to change the rules in the middle of a major sporting event. Bitter resentment is only a bit natural here given the nature of the game. I understand that, but i wont neccessarlly show that understanding when Players of opposing faction doing actions or posts tantamount to shoving your face in the dirt, or rubbing salt in the wound; which only makes ill will worse.

I understand why NC players say its not overpowered. Reguardless of honest or intent or not, its all about self interest. I'm sure some geinuanly beleive its not overpowered while others like myself are totally convinced of it. Nothing will ever change either position im sure. Heres a thought though, in any typical base capping scenario, what do you suppose the averange NC infantry with a Jackhammers kill to death ratio vs enemy infantry is? I'll bet its pretty damn good.

[Cyber]

the jackhammer is a fine, it has never bothered me. the only people who seem to really care about nerfing or unnerfing the jackhammer are noobs or ppl who get 1kill per death.

Look at my sig and tell me again how I'm a noob.

I think the jackhammer is in need of a nerf and I become more convinced of it everytime I log into the game. Tonight in a huge VS/TR battle on Amerish there were several times when even though there were no NC around you ran into VS or TR guys wielding jackhammers to great effect. In fact at one point a whole squad of VS dropped onto a tower I was defending, out of the 8 infantry, 6 had jackhammers. None had thier empire specific heavy assault gun. 1 was an infiltrator and one was a MAX.

Extreme case? Yes, but there were still several times for the rest of the night on Amerish were you'd suddenly run into a VS or TR wielding a jackhammer for no apparent reason. It's one thing to see them in a TR/NC fight since they're so easy to loot. But seeing them pulled out in a TR/VS fight is kinda silly.

That said tonight was one of the most enjoyable nights of PS I've had in a long time. There were very few NC on Amerish and for the most part it was just a big fight between the TR and VS without all the frustration of a thousand guys with the same weapon. Arguably this battle showed just how close the VS / TR are to balance. It went back and forth between Cetan and Irkala all night, they'd take one, we'd push one to neutral and take it. Musical bases? Ya, but it was a ton of fun.

It used to be that fighting the NC was the most fun for me since you knew they didn't think they had underpowered weapons. But at this point as far as I and it seems alot of TR are concerned the NC can rot. They've pushed in a taken large chunks of our backyard everyday the past few days. Yet, you go to the sanctuary and is anyone organizing a push to take them back? Nope, they're calling for reinforcements on Amerish.

Cause it's fun there. At this point until something changes with the jackhammer I think I'll be more actively seeking out places were I'm likely to only find myself fighting the Vanu. It's fun, and not cause it's easy (it's not) but because it involves more then one weapon being used. If the NC want our backyard they can have it, I certainly won't be lineing up to oppose them.

[ColdbringeR]

Are people trying to claim that the jackhammer is bad because everyone is using it? I think it would be a pretty messy site if every Terran were using the Chaingun as well.

Give it a break people. I've been playing Vanu all day yesterday and today, and the jackhammer has not given me any more problems than the Chaingun has. You can ask kidriot about that. Me and him were fighting at Gunuku and i held my own with a lousy Punisher.

The chaingun is freakin lethal at close range and not that bad at distance. The jackhammer is slightly more lethal at close range and worthless at distance. I'd say they're pretty freakin' balanced.

If anything needs a tweaking of some sort, it's the Lancer... That thing is jsut not cutting it in my opinion...

[Cyber]

The chaingun is freakin lethal at close range and not that bad at distance. The jackhammer is slightly more lethal at close range and worthless at distance.

Sorry, as far as I'm concerned you've completely invalidated your opinion in this one line alone.

Chaingun "not bad at distance" ? LOL. At it's narrowest the COF isn't going to hit anyone much more then 50m away. And in that case it's bursting slower then the Cycler. That is no where near "not bad at distance" it ranks up there as "horrible at distance" to the same degree as the jackhammer. Except as you yourself say, the hammer is overpowered and more lethal at close range.