Malorn's Stats Thread Reborn

[ikon]

planetside already caters to bad players, its called support classes.

why in gods name would we get rid of k/d, it only matters to the people who want it.
the rest just go about their business and be helpful via support or dying over and over as a offensive style class.


i know tb dislikes the one man army idea, but shouldn't every player aspire to be a one man army regardless of what class they play.

[Gugabalog]

Originally Posted by ikon

planetside already caters to bad players, its called support classes.

why in gods name would we get rid of k/d, it only matters to the people who want it.
the rest just go about their business and be helpful via support or dying over and over as a offensive style class.


i know tb dislikes the one man army idea, but shouldn't every player aspire to be a one man army regardless of what class they play.

You have obviously never heard of a force multiplier.

[rTekku]

Originally Posted by ikon

planetside already caters to bad players, its called support classes.

why in gods name would we get rid of k/d, it only matters to the people who want it.
the rest just go about their business and be helpful via support or dying over and over as a offensive style class.


i know tb dislikes the one man army idea, but shouldn't every player aspire to be a one man army regardless of what class they play.

I prefer to be part of a team versus a one man army. If I wanted to be a one man army, i'd still be playing Unreal Tournament.

[Cow God]

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

This thread has great examples of the mentality of FPS=K/D

And that it would be a challenge to change that mentality and thus require greater measures.

CoD and BF3 are unfortunately advancing that mentality faster then the objective-focused players can regress it. =\

[SpcFarlen]

I like to know my KDR, just because i like to know my combat effectiveness. When i assault a base with my outfit i want to be there to support them. Being alive longer means i can support them. Making sure when a target has a bead on me i can take them down before me means i can support those i need to for longer. Taking out an enemy means i keep my forces alive longer. The more we have, the better our odds for success.

If you have that mentality i dont see the issue. If you're worried someone else is going to "make fun of you" for a low KDR, ignore them or just not care. If you know you are doing the right thing, what do you have to prove to them?

[super pretendo]

Just make it like PS1

[Flaropri]

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

You can't capture points, run flags, hold territory... complete objectives...if you aren't killing people.

Yeah you can. As long as you're able to avoid death and your team takes care of the killing, you can absolutely focus on objectives in TF2. Sure, as a Scout I'll get some kills, but my primary job is to get objectives, find SG locations, and play baseball.

[opticalshadow]

Originally Posted by Flaropri

Yeah you can. As long as you're able to avoid death and your team takes care of the killing, you can absolutely focus on objectives in TF2. Sure, as a Scout I'll get some kills, but my primary job is to get objectives, find SG locations, and play baseball.

ill agree here, as a scout and sometimes spy, ill make it to the intel (i primairly play intel) without fireing a shot and then bline to base, sometimes i dont even fire, ive had plenty of tf2 games end in the top 3 postions with no kills.

[Voltar]

Mission completion or something like that would be better than K/D if we're looking to track productive teamwork stuff. Even though it's not been implimented yet, I think the mission system could be the thing that really makes this game.

There's a lot of potential for indirect coordination.

[bmfof]

Originally Posted by rTekku

Why would I need data to back up my claims?

When your whole argument is based on the notion that players en masse are degrading in quality solely because someone in a game told them they are bad, then - yes, you need data to back up your claims. Let me run you through the paces, since you're kind of drifting elsewhere with the rest of your post:

You: Players should have the option to hide their stats from the public eye.
Me: Why?
You: Because if their stats are public they are under constant scrutiny!
Me: So?
You: Players become insecure about themselves and their priorities suffer as a result.
Me: Do you actually have any data that backs up that claim?
You: They do, OK? I JUST KNOW IT!!!

Then you go on implying I've completely dwarfed the significance of other stats - which I never did at all - and try to build some kind of an argument around that implication, which is indicative of very poor debating skills. I'm telling you this so you don't wonder why I don't even answer the rest of your post - it's unanswerable because it assumes I've said and claimed things I didn't, and I refuse to be forced into that position.


Back on track, I realize what you're trying to accomplish - cut to the root of the problem, so to speak - by removing public stats, you believe people won't have the means to call anyone bad, thus leading us into a new age of gaming where everyone is happy about themselves and la-di-da. Sadly, you are wrong on two very simple accounts:

As I mentioned earlier, stupid people are stupid, regardless of stats. If they called you bad because of your stats in the past, they'll call you bad now because that's simply what they do - it's the essense of their being. Stats just gave them great flogging material, but the presense of stats is secondary to the intentions of a player. Stats aren't the cause (or root) of the problem - people are.

Second, you completely disregard the fact that your "beef" with stat tracking stems from any number of other factors like poor method of overall stat tracking, many possible exploits and exaggerations, poor level design (in your favourite example of op.metro), immature communty, and lastly - it's based on a game(s) that is totally different from PS2. However, you seem to ignore the fact that many of these factors are redeemable - stat tracking methods could be improved to better represent actual useful performance, exploits could be kept track of and dealt with, poor level design averted, immaturity - funneled into useful playstyle through ingame mechanisms... and it goes without saying that PS2 is so inherantly different from your standart Battlefiedesuqe gameplay, that to apply experiences and overall mass mentality from one to the other is an absolute waste of time and energy (kinda of like this whole thread).

To sum up, stats aren't your problem, people are. And it doesn't matter what kinds or number of mechanics you attach (or detach) to a game, they will remain stupid until the end of time. I also have the whole of human history to back me up on that claim, unlike you.

[Firearms]

Stats are win. Take out K/D and people will just start putting Vanu stamps along their monitor and taking screen shots....human nature.
It's the people that think this or that stat matters is the problem.

Originally Posted by bmfof

To sum up, stats aren't your problem, people are.

/thread

[Trauma]

Maybe something like how Blacklight Retribution shows score and KD will make both sides happy, score is heavily emphasized with it being bigger and brighter on the scoreboard but KD is shown right there for people to see.

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/blackli...ore=1338167117

Smart/good players will understand how both are related and judge a player on that while people who think score is almighty will have it right there in the open and players who just like the KD, which is one of the most important stats in a SHOOTER, will have it in the same place on the same line as score. Everyone should be happy.

[Gugabalog]

Sorry, but as a pilot game for a genre and an mmofps k/d is a secondary statistic.

[kubacheski]

K/D is kinda bogus in a persistent world. Ever been killed out in the middle of nowhere by a stray reaver that flew by? It makes a lot more sense in an instanced game where you play a round and see how good you do.

PS1 and PS2 are persistent wars where there are a multitude of tactics. For example, ever have a few infils load up with plasma grenades and cause a distraction so the main assault force can push into a base? Damage done causing general havoc in one area that doesn't always yield kills, can still lead to the squad/platoon getting an objective completed.

Something like damage per death makes much more sense as a statistic for your battle effectiveness. But then with varrying classes and vehicles and weapons contributing to varrying damage output, even that doesn't make the equation equal for all. i.e. when you're a medic, your goal is to heal faction members so that primary objective should count more than your damage output. Each class has a different priority. And then people have different tactics they employ to varrying degrees of success. There's simply too much diversity to have anything near a valid "score equation".

With all of the stats people track, it would be nice to be able to configure your own definition of what to display. Some people like K/D, others could choose Damage/Death, others MetersRun/Death, BulletsSpent/Kill. The list goes on and on, you let the user define what he wants to see based upon how he wants to grade himself for battle effectiveness.

I mean if you're displaying one calculation for k/d, then you're already hitting the stats database for a lookup of the 2 stats and then performing the defined calculation, why not allow the user to define the 2 stats they want to see and display that for them on the kill screen.

[Revanmug]

Originally Posted by Flaropri

Yeah you can. As long as you're able to avoid death and your team takes care of the killing, you can absolutely focus on objectives in TF2. Sure, as a Scout I'll get some kills, but my primary job is to get objectives, find SG locations, and play baseball.

You kinda prove his point. You might be doing your job but other people still have to do the killing and if they fail at killing, your job will be harder.

Depending on the person's job, a higher k/d might be more important comparing to another's people job. As long as any other stats are shown so you can judge yourself, Why would that wrong? Just make sure no stats look more important than the others since changing kdr for a score or something is nothing more than changing the bad to another place.